My neighbor inherited a 2005 Civic from a family member who stopped driving. 79k, seems to be in pretty decent shape. It's been sitting in his driveway for almost 6 months with virtually no use. I think they drove it a little at first, but for a least three months it's had zero miles. Tag is now expired. I don't need it, but I'm GRM and I have a problem when it comes to resisting the urge to buying cars when they are priced well. My dilemma is the hybrid battery back. How does KBB or others deal with this? First, I'm making the assumption that 10 years is a decent lifespan for the battery pack and that I would be looking at making the change soon? If KBB says roughly $6k, how does that work? A quick search tells me that I can buy a rebuilt battery pack for $2k, and dealer price is probably $3k. So does that make car at the end of the battery life worth significantly less? How are people determining value on hybrids when the battery pack becomes a significant portion of the value?
$2k? I would look at is as if it were a car that I was about to buy and immediately change the transmission in.
I doubt 3 months hurt the battery any, and most of those you can open up pretty easily and replace the bad cell(s). Good quality nickel batteries are tough critters, the nicd pack on my oscilloscope from the late 80s still works pretty close to new specs(and keeps working better as I exercise it more), until a couple weeks ago, it hadn't seen a charger since the early 90s. The seller however, needn't know that.
N Sperlo wrote:
$2k? I would look at is as if it were a car that I was about to buy and immediately change the transmission in.
And this is where I get stuck. So is $4k the "right" price and KBB just hasn't accounted for the fact that batteries need to be replaced on hybrids? Can't imagine sellers in general will be excited about offers at half the asking price.
And to Kenny's point, I am sure that there are GRM ways to deal with the battery, but for the sake of this exercise I am assuming just a simple swap and go refresh. Finding a way to make it a better deal by dealing with only replacing some cells is a noble way to make it a better deal, but I don't want to cloud the issue of valuing the car for the masses.
We've a fleet of these at work. As the battery peters out, it's not subtle. They hold less and less charge, meaning climb a steep hill and watch the charge meter drop like a rock, and then you find yourself doing about 45 miles per hour. Ask the current owner if they are running into this.
Honda hybrid batteries CANT sit. 3 months of sitting means it will almost certainly die within the next 12 months. The manual mentions "battery performance may be degraded" if the car sits, but the pack is on borrowed time. There are resources to grid charge it to balance it, how to replace cells, things like that. If it is close to being on the way out, it will start to "regen" all the time. The state of charge will suddenly walk down to zero, then very slowly (5-10 minutes) go all the way back to full. this is the system trying to balance the pack. Doing this once a week or so is normal. When mine got replaced it was doing it 7 times in 60 miles. You also get much less (or no) assist, but unless you've driven one before it's hard to compare.
I bought my '09 used, and the battery started to go 8 months after (in '12). It sat at the dealership mostly undriven for 4 months. I bought it expecting the battery to fail, and hoping it would while it was still under warranty. It did, and now the replacement battery is starting to weaken.
The plus side is that while the dealer battery would have cost me $6500+tx, there are companies that sell refurbs with warranty for about 2k as you found.
Having said all that, the battery (unless it is failed at time of sale) doesn't seem to affect the price much. You might get a premium for a brand new one, similar to an older Caravan or v6 Honda with a new transmission, but not much. Dealers don't seem to care at all (unless they are trying to lowball you). They didn't care mine was brand new when I was looking at trading. In short, if it is working now, you can probably get your local market price (kbb, whatever).
In reply to glueguy:
$6k is the value of the car in good condition? I think good condition would mean the battery is going to hold out. If you expect the battery to be bad, I would calculate the $2k for battery and $500 (adjust accordingly as to how nice you feel) for "labor". $3500?
What is the warrantee period on the batteries? I took a quick look online and it appears that it varies between 8 years / 80,000 miles or 10 years / 150,000 miles, depending on what state you live in.
Dorman lists a battery pack, retail price is apparently $2300ish after core.
There was a small startup that developed new methods of remanufacturing battery packs. The guy worked out the bugs, built up a production line process, and then sold it all to Dorman. IIRC they haven't had any comebacks.
Just sayin'. $4500 or so for a hybrid Civic seems like a heck of a deal, and that is IF the battery is bad.
Knurled wrote:
Dorman lists a battery pack, retail price is apparently $2300ish after core.
There was a small startup that developed new methods of remanufacturing battery packs. The guy worked out the bugs, built up a production line process, and then sold it all to Dorman. IIRC they haven't had any comebacks.
Just sayin'. $4500 or so for a hybrid Civic seems like a heck of a deal, and that is IF the battery is bad.
Markets may vary, but I was surprised to find that kbb for a 2005 Civic with 79k in VGC was $6k, and a 2004 was $5k. I had to remind myself (feeling old) that mid 2000's is already a 10 year old car.
This is what got me started on the whole topic. If blue book if $5k and battery life span is 10 years and $3k to replace, how does this work in the real world from a valuation standpoint? I hadn't thought of it like this before.
I'd price it like it needs a k24 swap.
glueguy wrote:
Knurled wrote:
Dorman lists a battery pack, retail price is apparently $2300ish after core.
There was a small startup that developed new methods of remanufacturing battery packs. The guy worked out the bugs, built up a production line process, and then sold it all to Dorman. IIRC they haven't had any comebacks.
Just sayin'. $4500 or so for a hybrid Civic seems like a heck of a deal, and that is IF the battery is bad.
Markets may vary, but I was surprised to find that kbb for a 2005 Civic with 79k in VGC was $6k, and a 2004 was $5k. I had to remind myself (feeling old) that mid 2000's is already a 10 year old car.
This is what got me started on the whole topic. If blue book if $5k and battery life span is 10 years and $3k to replace, how does this work in the real world from a valuation standpoint? I hadn't thought of it like this before.
It's like buying any other 10 year old car. The engine or transmission COULD fail at any time. If it is in good shape with mileage that low and the battery is currently working, it's market value.
I would let the market decide. If the batteries are good today then list it as a VGC. In my area, realistically that is a $5500 car because there is just so many of them out there.
If the buyer don't like the price or is concerned about the cost of the battery replacement, they will speak with their wallet. (mainly by not opening it)
