Supposedly we'll see the highest gas rates ever, but I'm not sure how this compares with the shortage of the 70s.
One difference is we don't really have a modern day Volkswagen Beetle or other cheap option. Do we?
Supposedly we'll see the highest gas rates ever, but I'm not sure how this compares with the shortage of the 70s.
One difference is we don't really have a modern day Volkswagen Beetle or other cheap option. Do we?
I'd imagine that bigger, less fuel-efficient vehicles will fall out of favor (think back to the Hummer H2), but I'm not sure about EVs.
I think it can only help EV adoption. If someone was on the fence, a significant increase in running costs for the ICE could certainly make up their minds. I don't think it will cause a collapse of ICE sales, just hasten adoption. It'll be hard to spot in the sales figures as a whole bunch of tasty new EVs are coming to market right about now.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Are any of the new and tasty EVs available at a "reasonable" price like the 70s?
In reply to stan :
Nissan Leaf has been in the market for a long time so a used one might be the answer. Range is not huge but good for running errands.
I have considered jokingly putting up a Facebook ad offering trade only...My 195k Prius for their Full size, Crew Cab 4x4 Truck with same or less miles of same or newer year (2008.)
I'm implying can I get someone to take my $5k Prius in exchange for their $15k truck?
stan said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Are any of the new and tasty EVs available at a "reasonable" price like the 70s?
There are multiple EV options available for less than the average price of a new vehicle. People that wait until there's a gas price increase to buy fuel efficient vehicles are being reactive rather than proactive, and that always costs money.
Most modern hybrid cars get at least 40mpg. A $1/gal increase would cost that driver $25 more for every 1000 miles driven. If the average American drives 12k per year, that's $300 annually for every dollar/gal that gas goes up. A price increase is no big deal for them. Most people spend more than that on coffee. And they didn't even have to reduce their driving or alter their behavior.
Too early to say. I would imagine if it stays here for a long time then there may be a shift in demand long term once you can actually buy a car new from the lot. I have a charger in the garage of the new house so it's entirely possible that I'd consider one long term.
I can see someone who is already contemplating buying a new vehicle reconsidering and evaluating an EV instead,but I don't see a big swing that way. If. like me, you don't put large mileages on your vehicle annually it won't have a payback that makes sense. I'm currently driving a rusting, 147K MINI, so when I make the decision to replace it I might consider an EV but I'm far more likely to get a hybrid unless EV range goes up appreciably. My wife's car would be a perfect scenario for EV, but at a tank of gas per month (10-11 gallons) it makes no sense to go trade. I would think folks who routinely lease vehicles would be the main market for an EV to replace one of their SUV/CUVs when range isn't an issue. Add in the price premium for an EV and I can absorb a fair bit of gas price increases for a long while. If gas supplies dry up , like the 1970s, then it's a completely different ball game.
Edit: I'll be curious to hear my sister's take on an EV. They ordered a new Kia Soul EV as a second vehicle to her husband's pickup. It will replace a Nissan Pathfinder. They live on an island off the coast of British Columbia , so gas prices are sort of Canadian price, plus Vancouver Island premium, plus small island premium. She's not a car person, but she was impressed by the acceleration of the demo they drove.
i'm fortunate that i can say "meh." E92 has averaged 23 mpg over 10 months of my drive cycle, so my commute uses about a gallon a day.
Anyone who can math and buys on math would have bought an EV already at $3/gal. People who buy on max-use, looks, familiarity, prestige, sport, or have large families, short drives or cargo or towing or other circumstances are still stuck. There is a sliver who don't know the ease of charging, the range, the power and such, but they are dwindling.
In reply to John Welsh :
You can always take over my lease of my Cx-9 for trade 
stan said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Are any of the new and tasty EVs available at a "reasonable" price like the 70s?
Total cost of ownership? Yes.
Cheaper than the cheapest gas car on the market? No.
Lower price than the average selling price of a new gas car? Yes.
EVs may not fare any better than ICE vehicles if the price for Nickel doesn't return to normal.
It was $100k/ton UK market before trading was halted
stan said:Supposedly we'll see the highest gas rates ever, but I'm not sure how this compares with the shortage of the 70s.
One difference is we don't really have a modern day Volkswagen Beetle or other cheap option. Do we?
Things change. Those that anticipate those changes and act always will come out ahead of the wait and see crowd.
The hold back on EV's tends to be those who don't understand how little most families travel on a daily basis.
They can't envision the ease of plugging in at home and on the rare occasion where they will drive outside of the range of their batteries the ease of recharging.
Can you imagine as we changed from horses to cars? What will we do when that contraption runs out of gas? At least my horse can eat the grass on the side of the road. Etc.
John Welsh said:In reply to stan :
Nissan Leaf has been in the market for a long time so a used one might be the answer. Range is not huge but good for running errands.
I expect the used Leaf to be the it-car of this gas shortage, although it might not stand out from the other options as much as the CRX HF and Gen1 Insight did in the last one.
Even before the gas crisis, used EVs had already appreciated a bunch and I expect that to continue. I bought my BMW i3 for $16k less than 12 months ago and an identical one is on Carvana now for $27k. With the battery recall still in early phases, there are zero Chevy Bolts to be had nationwide right now on Carvana. Zero! The ones with the recall already performed are snapped up instantly.
It probably won't affect new EVs as they already were flying off the lot, just like every other new car available right now.
edit: an aside, This week I found out my local electric utility now has a great Time-of-Day rate that will pay me $500 to switch over, and also cut my overnight EV charging costs from 17 to 12 cents a kwh. Comparing that to my old V6 Accord, it drops my yearly fuel costs from $2200 to about $400.
stan said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Are any of the new and tasty EVs available at a "reasonable" price like the 70s?
The LEAF is still around and starts at $27k before the tax incentive, and you get 150 miles of range. That's the best value out there right now, probably the lowest cost of ownership imaginable for any new car.
The new Mini SE is like $31k and some change, and is eligible for the tax rebate so you're talking about $25k out the door. That's a good price, but it's a small car and about 120 miles of range so it won't work for most. Mazda's MX-30 is about the same price but has even less range IIRC.
The Chevy Bolt starts at $31,500 for a brand-new model and offers plenty of range (and overall "car" - it's practical) for the dollar. Not "cheap" but not $65k+ either. I think we'll see even more hybrid and PHEV sales over straight up EVs - hybrids are less scary to many buyers (OMG where do I charge this sounds hard) and people in any housing situation can own one and benefit. Hard to justify an EV if you don't have Level 2 home charging capability, which takes them out of the running for folks in most apartments or with street parking.
I still think the Ford Maverick is a huge deal. Practical, $20k or so, and roughly 40 MPG from the standard hybrid/FWD drivetrain. Escape Hybrid starts at $29k which is quite the jump to get an enclosed box vs a bed. Hopefully Ford can produce enough Mavericks to meet demand.
I agree about the "less scary" comment.
I do know some EV owners who cannot charge at home and they don't consider it particularly difficult to manage. It's not like gas cars fill themselves up at night either, and you can be doing other things while the car is plugged in. But perception is all.
New ND Miata Sport can be had for <$30k. Get 39mpg highway, 32 mixed and have a ball doing it. Used ND1's can be had in the low 20's. If we keep buying these things maybe Mazda will keep making them.
Keith Tanner said:I agree about the "less scary" comment.
I do know some EV owners who cannot charge at home and they don't consider it particularly difficult to manage. It's not like gas cars fill themselves up at night either, and you can be doing other things while the car is plugged in. But perception is all.
I do have one friend who street-parks a Model 3 in DC. He takes it to a Supercharger every like, two weeks at the most, because he's not putting a ton of miles on it per day and just running around the city isn't much distance/battery hit. Was worried at first and it's working out for him so far.
Most people (including news sources) believe this will speed up adoption of EVs. Lots of cool cars coming out. I like the Hyundai Ioniq5 and Kia EV6 offerings a lot and they start at $40k not including rebates. That's roughly equivalent to the starting point of a Camry hybrid judging by a quick google search.
At the same time, working from home has become quite popular so a lot less people have to drive daily.
Keith Tanner said:I agree about the "less scary" comment.
I do know some EV owners who cannot charge at home and they don't consider it particularly difficult to manage. It's not like gas cars fill themselves up at night either, and you can be doing other things while the car is plugged in. But perception is all.
Read an article about gas station owners wanting to sell food rather than gas. Profit is higher, work is less, etc.
So you'll soon see EVplugs at the gas pumps or seperate islands for EV's.
In reply to frenchyd :
100% get them inside for food, drinks, smokes, etc. profit on gas is pennies per gallon, like 3 cents.
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