How does the PCA do it?

I've noticed that a lot of these newer "for profit" track day companies charge a lot. Case in point, I just signed up for a 3-day PCA DE that's about $100 less than one of the local for-profit clubs charges for a 2-day DE at the same track, and the PCA event includes a free banquet where I can bring my whole family and drink free booze! I'm not a PCA member, I don't own a Porsche, and I had no prior affiliation with them before I randomly signed up for one of their events a few years ago.

I guess there's 2 questions here, 1) how does the PCA get away with charging so little, and 2) how do the other clubs get away with charging so much?

Do you get to actually drive a Porsche at these events?

In reply to steronz:

The more applicable question is the latter one.

Having organized a lot of track events for AROC- it's not that hard to charge not so much and break even. Or make enough of a "profit" that our favorite charity is quite happy.

If you are talking $100 less, then I'm thinking that the cost is well north of $100. ALL of our events were significantly less than that, and we never lost money. That extra cost means you get a more expensive track at a bare minimum- which is great. And food isn't that expensive, too....

So, ask yourself, why are you spending more to get less?

The PCA is a very established club - might they have local sponsors helping subsidize the event or the catering?

In reply to nderwater:

You don't need to.

It may help, but it's very much not required.

I'll reiterate my point- it's not about how PCA does it, it's WHY do people pay so much MORE?

Chicago's AROC rents Road America every year- and I'm pretty sure they charge less than PCA does. Which would be even LESS than the "For Profits" charge.

Depending on how many track days you do- you might be able to afford a 944, a PCA memberships, and every track day in a year, and come out ahead. And PCA offers SO VERY MUCH with their track events. Great club.

Why bother with the for profit clubs.

The PCA is a national club, with lots of dues paying members.

stuart in mn wrote: The PCA is a national club, with lots of dues paying members.

All that does is get them easy insurance coverage. The national club isn't likely to subsidize track events.

Is it a club, or a profit making entity? Big, big difference if your staff is all volunteer, and you are making your living at a different place.

alfadriver wrote:

stuart in mn wrote: The PCA is a national club, with lots of dues paying members.

All that does is get them easy insurance coverage. The national club isn't likely to subsidize track events.

The club I organize with did a trackday some years ago before I joined and it is likely this. It could also be that being part of a large group they are able to leverage reduced track expense based on volume?

Insurance is also cheaper for big organizations with long histories of running safe events.

I don't know about PCA, but the BMWCCA events I've been to use volunteer instructors who work in exchange for free track time during the instructor sessions.

Renting the whole track amounts to a "buy in bulk" discount if you get enough cars using it.

I was in the PCA, and in fact bought a 944 just to join them. The national club helps by ensuring that our track day insurance is very reasonable (a meticulous safety record helps as well). The DE's are usually self-sustaining (ie - all of the fees to drive in one cover the costs), but sometimes they are subsidized. In our region, autocross makes the dough like crazy and supports a money-losing DE program. The instructors are all volunteer and the corner workers are paid.

Shouldn't there be a comparison of seat time and number of entrants? seems like you'd need that to quantify any comparison.

Probably insurance. My local Corvair club could makes LOTS of money running autoX's while charging less than other events because the national club would cover the insurance. I suspect PCA has a similar thing.

I'll chime in this evening. PCA Club Racing program is a separate entity from the club budgetwise. The HPDE program is part of the general club, on race weekends they share site cost. There are a few other tricks they use, having 2 sessions and subletting sessions to other groups such as BMW CCA for example.

The "secret" of PCA is the volunteers. In fact, the new club tagline is "Fueled by Volunteers". The club has very capable people working as volunteers, doing work you couldn't pay someone enough to do. There is a national staff, but it has historically been very small.

They say fueled by volunteers but they also pay the best of any club I work for. The organizers and instructors are typically volunteers but all of the corner worker, safety staff, etc are paid and paid pretty good at least in Texas. I work every PCA event I can because of that.

It comes down to insurance costs (Cheap because they run very safe and well executed events) and that they are a not for profit vs a business like Chin and some of the other track day hosting companies out there.

I haven't done any track days for 7 years now, but hands down my favorite organization to run with were Eric's Alfa club events. Cheapest, but better than the low cost was the low key attitude. Easy going group with lots of track time and fewer egos wanting to 'win' the track day. If/when I start doing events again I'll seek out more Alfa events.

PCA were more expensive but fun. Shelby club had far more ego. I can't see any reason to pay for a for profit event, but if it's you job you need to make a profit. $100 extra by say 150 people is only $15,000. Doesn't seem much of a profit for an organization of say 3 or 4 people organizing say 10 events per year. Doesn't sound worth the effort to me for the organizers.

Based on how this conversation is going, it sounds like very few year attend the "for profit" track events. Which is good.

In reply to alfadriver:

Not so much the case, self disclosure I'm a former PCA Club Racing employee, one of 2 paid positions at the time (now there is only one). The club racing series and national office operate at break even. However regions, which host the races and manage their own hpde programs, do in fact turn healthy profits from the track activities. I'll provide a full review and outline of the workings later this weekend (likely not this evening as originally planned).

I ride with BMWCCA and PCA regularly around here. PCA is less expensive, but not a bunch less. Back in the 2009-2012 summers, our BMWCCA HPDE weekends were running at a loss, but they're back to break-even now. Members of the PCA group (but not the Head Instructor or anything) have told me the local club gets a regular cut of the dues PCA-ers pay to the national organization, and they use this money for various things including HPDE subsidies.

In reply to JBasham:

Yes, PCA National is a "non profit" where all annual revenue is issued as refunds to regions based on number of members per a region, event cost and exposure generated. Trust me, national is all about the self serving dollar as they more money they profit to the regions the higher the vote of confidence given to the by regional leadership, who steers the recommendation of the members when voting for executive council positions. With that regard it's all about the money raised to buy a position within the hierarchy of PCA.

Wow! This is the first time the spoils of a corrupt government have inured to my benefit. Maybe I'll win the Pick 4 today too!

Here in California, it seems to be the reverse -- there are a bunch of low cost, for-profit track days showing up that undercut the traditional club track days. How do they do it? It's about the number of attendees.

If it costs $20,000 to rent the track all-in (rental fee, corner works, medical, insurance, etc), and you do 4 groups of 25 cars, you can break even at $200 each. If you do 5 groups of 30 it takes $133 and 3 groups of 20 it's $333. That's a 2.5x difference in cost for what would superficially appear to be the same track day.

So if you're trying to maximize your track time, look closely at how the event is structured. Consider that in a 20 minute session you lose something like 5 minutes for getting on and off the track. Also consider that a track day typically has a bunch of fixed overhead costs (gas to/from, hotel, food, etc), and you pay that whether you get 1.5 hours of track time or 2.5.