The pace for slower cars thread got me thinking about how fast cars are now. A stock veto or grr or viper or gt350r or z28 is a Serious performance car. It's interesting to me that there is such a chasm between those type of cars and a firs/brz, or an nd mx5 for example. That's a big gap but when tuning comes into play, it gets crazy, we're starting to see 7 second cars that can handle well, check this out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEoTfj89xk
Things have changed! Heck, a '16 Honda Accord V6 puts down 278HP and will do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds with a 14.4 quarter mile; a '92 Corvette LT1 made 300HP and did 0-60 in 5.7 with a 14.1 quarter. And the Accord gets 25MPG on Regular to the Corvette's 18 on Premium...cars are FAST now. I still remember when 300HP was considered an extremely quick car and now most car guys consider seem to consider that an "average" figure. And now cars are getting lighter too to improve fuel economy, which will make them quicker yet again...it's really not a bad thing from an enthusiast standpoint, but it sure does make older hardware irrelevant at an exponentially quicker pace!
At least one advantage the "low power" cars have now versus the momentum cars of times past is that the power and torque seems to have a much more usable range. The FR-S/BRZ may only have 200HP, but you don't have to work nearly as hard for that power as you would have in something like an Integra Type-R.
How many cars now require a cage per Nhra rules as recorded from the factory?
pointofdeparture wrote: Things have changed! Heck, a '16 Honda Accord V6 puts down 278HP and will do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds with a 14.4 quarter mile; a '92 Corvette LT1 made 300HP and did 0-60 in 5.7 with a 14.1 quarter. And the Accord gets 25MPG on Regular to the Corvette's 18 on Premium...cars are FAST now. I still remember when 300HP was considered an extremely quick car and now most car guys consider seem to consider that an "average" figure. And now cars are getting lighter too to improve fuel economy, which will make them quicker yet again...it's really not a bad thing from an enthusiast standpoint, but it sure does make older hardware irrelevant at an exponentially quicker pace! At least one advantage the "low power" cars have now versus the momentum cars of times past is that the power and torque seems to have a much more usable range. The FR-S/BRZ may only have 200HP, but you don't have to work nearly as hard for that power as you would have in something like an Integra Type-R.
Huh? I own a BRZ, sure you can get around town just fine with it, but if you want to "move" you need to be north of 4600rpm. Really 5-7k is where the little bit of power is.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: How many cars now require a cage per Nhra rules as recorded from the factory?
I don't know that, but they did lower the ET point that required a roll bar in a factory stock car a few years ago. Used to be 12.0, now 11.50, I think.
I think it's all a hollow pursuit because you end up with these amazing cars that you just can't use without going to prison. Even chassis and tire wise, the limits are so damn high nowadays that you just can't exploit these cars anywhere without being held up by traffic (trackways) or arrested (street).
z31maniac wrote: Really 5-7k is where the little bit of power is.
People used to steal cars to get that much power in their civic.
The annoying thing about it to me is that kids who are just now getting into the hobby and had their formative driving experiences in modern cars are kinda spoiled by it. I'm pretty young and did my early driving in late 90s cars. 300hp was still a big thing then.
But i also think people think it takes way more power to go fast than you actually need when your car is light. I recently ran one of my Dodge Caravans down the 1/4 in 14.0 seconds. Quicker than a 280hp midsize family car although that van only makes 220-230hp. It's like 'horsepower inflation' where the weight of modern cars means a horsepower don't go as far as it used to.
Back in my day! 
I am stoked about the emerging trend toward light weight though.
In reply to Vigo:
This is how i feel as well, my daily is 31 years old but back in its day was fast, now i can get my ass handed to me by mini vans and base model mustangs if im not careful.
1000hp is the new 500hp.
Semi related:
I've been looking through the Autocross class car lists recently and asked myself, "Where are the slow cars?".
The M3 runs in F Street (where my Lincoln would wallow.).
The Acura RSX(non-S), GTV6, older S4, Fiesta ST, Mazda2, Mazda3, Mazda6, etc. have all been ushered into H Street.
That speaks to the speed of the current crop of sporty cars when cars that I view as sporty and quick are lumped into the same class as, or even a class below, my luxobarge.
I remember getting smoked at a light in my 280zx by an old lady in a Camry. Four cylinder at that! It was not a proud moment. I didn't even mean to race, but we were both heading toward a merger onto the interstate from a red light, I dropped the hammer thinking "no problem". Then a tan yota went by as I shifted to second. Blew my doors off. My only consolation is knowing I'll live longer than her.
In reply to Trackmouse:
I have had similar problems with my old turbo nx, from excess wheel spin instead. All it takes is a puddle and it would be pegging the rev limiter.
Even if you upgrade the old cars fwd gets tricky around 300hp and up.
Vigo, if you think that's bad, think about guys like me or a few years older, who grew up in the late 70's into the late 80's. The days of sub 200hp Corvettes. It's just plain nutty to think how you get more power out of a Prius now that many 'performance' cars in those dark years.
That was a "special" period. But there were things then (mainly 80's) strapped with turbos that would beat the tetotal crap out of a 180hp vette. My 85 volvo turbo i was talking about included. But even still if today you can buy a used v6 honda accord that makes 278hp, whats the point? The future of hp is awesome, but sucks for those of us stuck in the past or those refusing to drive drive by wire obd2 crap.
Edit: like 4,5,6, even 700hp isnt anything as long as you have the credit to buy a new car with a warranty you can have whatever you want.
We truly do live in the golden age of the automobile
In reply to Happy Carmore:
Said every man since 1886, minus that time between 1974-1985 in america.
Back in the early 90s my '76 Rolla with a 3TC/2TC Frankenmotor made about 160hp at 7200rpm based on it's tiny 1910lb weight (with 6 gallons of 93 octane and 165 lb me in it!!!) and a 102mph trap speed. 14-ohs in the 1/4 and, it ran out of gear at 142mph (discovered on an arrow-straight stretch of 3AM highway between Lawton and Altus AFB. A fabbed rear deck spoiler and front airdam kept it from taking flight) . But it took about $1500 worth of 1990 Air Force enlisted man's dollars to build that motor. Now you can get that kind of accelleration in an econo-car with a manufacturer warranty and at far lower rpm. Still, it managed 30mpg highway one I got the cruise circuit on the dual Weber 40's dialed in. But the plugs would start to load up just sitting at a red light.
Appleseed wrote: 1000hp is the new 500hp.
^This, when i was younger (not even that long ago as I am only 26) i remember hearing of people having 600-700 hp and I though that was insane, now I have 3 close friends that have all built 1000+ hp cars like its nothing.
chiodos wrote: In reply to Happy Carmore: Said every man since 1886, minus that time between 1974-1985 in america.
Doesn't make it less true...
I'm going to be the spoiler here, and say that it's all gotten patently ridiculous. Should mom's Camry be as fast as a Top Fuel dragster from the 60's?
No. There's no reason for it. Not only is there no reason for it, it's dangerous.
If a car enthusiast wants to build a 700hp car, that's great. An enthusiast has an idea of what that means, and how to treat those horses with respect. When any schmuck with a 600 credit score can go finance a Hellcat, I start to get frightened.
I'm a big fan of "slow car fast", but moms driving 300hp minivans take the fun out of it, and frankly, scare the crap out of me.
EvanR wrote: I'm going to be the spoiler here, and say that it's all gotten patently ridiculous. Should mom's Camry be as fast as a Top Fuel dragster from the 60's? No. There's no reason for it. Not only is there no reason for it, it's dangerous. If a car enthusiast wants to build a 700hp car, that's great. An enthusiast has an idea of what that means, and how to treat those horses with respect. When any schmuck with a 600 credit score can go finance a Hellcat, I start to get frightened. I'm a big fan of "slow car fast", but moms driving 300hp minivans take the fun out of it, and frankly, scare the crap out of me.
I tend to agree, especially once you remember that half of them are on bald all-seasons and the cheapest parts store brakes you can find.
But at the same time, there are places (such as the stop-sign on ramps for parts of the Merritt Parkway in CT) where having the extra power is safer (except the soccer moms are all scared to actually put their foot down and never use it). Merging from a dead stop into 70 mph traffic isn't the time for cars with a 10+ second 0-60, as you either wait for a long time to get a big enough gap, or you end up cutting people off. The only things I've driven on those ramps and felt like I comfortably had enough power to make it not a big deal all had a 0-60 time under 7 seconds.
In reply to rslifkin:
Ahh, the Merritt... I haven't driven it since the early 80s, when a sub-10 second 0-60 meant you had a fast car. That Parkway, and many others like it on the East coast, was designed in the 50s, when the limit on those roads was 45mph.
I'm sure it's horribly scary today, like you say.
EvanR wrote: In reply to rslifkin: Ahh, the Merritt... I haven't driven it since the early 80s, when a sub-10 second 0-60 meant you had a *fast* car. That Parkway, and many others like it on the East coast, was designed in the 50s, when the limit on those roads was 45mph. I'm sure it's horribly scary today, like you say.
Fortunately, they've gotten rid of most of the bad stop sign on ramps. There's just a few left, and they're ones with pretty good visibility. So as long as you've got enough power to put yourself into a gap in traffic, they're not bad. And they fixed the flooding issues it used to have when it rained, for the most part. Still a narrow, unforgiving stretch of highway though.
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