My contact for the European tour of hot rods was told his Chrysler Hemi block is ruined.
The one he has took him over a decade to find. When he did find it it was really expensive.
With 3 D printing etc could you print a wax mold and sand cast one?
You could, in theory, with a E36 M3load and a half of money and R&D. Or maybe with an extensive background career in engineering and metallurgy, with the connections that come with it for proper alloys.
In practice? Probably cheaper and easier to call Stellantis or whatever they call themselves these days and ask for one. Definitely cheaper and easier to source a used one.
Or have a 5 axis machine whittle a billet block out of aluminum.
You could, but I don't think you could save money by doing it. You might match the cost of buying an aftermarket cast block by casting your own at best. How ruined is it and in what way? Maybe something that could be fixed by sleeving the bores or welding up and then line-boring some journals maybe?
Modeling the engine would be quite the project. I'd guess by the time you model and cast one you'd be about the same money as finding another block. Unless the block is shattered or windowed hard, it might be worth sending it off for a repair attempt.
Appleseed said:Or have a 5 axis machine whittle a billet block out of aluminum.
Bingo:
Anyone thinking, "Just get a new block," second gen Hemi blocks are incredibly hard to find these days.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Second hand information so I don't have full details but they put all new sleeves in and I guess they got it wrong because the next morning both top decks were cracked and a lot of the cracks extended through the block to exterior walls.
How is the block ruined? What is wrong with it?
For an "irreplaceable/impossible to find block" it should be able to be welded back up and machined.
RevRico said:You could, in theory, with a E36 M3load and a half of money and R&D. Or maybe with an extensive background career in engineering and metallurgy, with the connections that come with it for proper alloys.
In practice? Probably cheaper and easier to call Stellantis or whatever they call themselves these days and ask for one. Definitely cheaper and easier to source a used one.
According to him it took him a decade to find one 1957 Chrysler Hemi. I guess the newer Hemi 60's. -70's is frowned on for that crowd?
The company you mentioned, they sell them? If so I tell him to contact them Any more information you have would be appreciated.
He knows about the billet ones used in top fuel. But they don't have water jackets etc? This is for a Street driven hot rod.
Whether CNC milling or 3D printing a casting tool, the hard part will be making a computer model of the block. There are 3D CT scanners that can get the insides measured.
In reply to Slippery :
Sleeves put in too tight. Basically splitting the block into 3 pieces
j_tso said:Whether CNC milling or 3D printing a casting tool, the hard part will be making a computer model of the block. There are 3D CT scanners that can get the insides measured.
That's what I thought. Pull out the sleeves, strap things together and 3 D scan everything.
The foundry casting it should know the correct formula. Shouldn't they ?
If they are really that rare it is probably worth approaching someone who casts aftermarket blocks with a pile of money to pay them for the R&D to start producing them. There is.. a lot, to producing even simple low pressure castings. Between shrinkrates, materials selections, etc. If it was cost effective I doubt an established block manufacturer would pass on such a market.
What you are suggesting overall is absolutely a way to produce things today. Foam or wax can be used in a relatively low cost sand casting. We used these techniques for prototyping and even low scale production runs of cast aluminum table legs before we could justify die casting with complex insert molds. And that was 15 years ago when additive manufacturing was incredibly cutting edge.
In reply to frenchyd :
Well Stellantis is the new name for dodge/Chrysler/jeep/ram/our E36 M3 rusts away at the dealership and we learned all about electricity from Lucas.
Appleseed said:Anyone thinking, "Just get a new block," second gen Hemi blocks are incredibly hard to find these days.
This is a first Generation block. So 66 years old? Is the early 331 the same basic block? So they could date from 1952?
Pretty much any Foundry won't touch it unless it's their designed mold, etc. Then you have the fact that unless you're getting A LOT of them, they don't want the job. I couldn't even find a foundry that would use a proven mold I already had and do a small production run for valve covers.....
The Cheapest (and fastest) DIY way would be: Buy a 5 axis CNC, Faro Arm, MasterCam, Tooling and a huge chunk of aluminum. Might be able to do it for under 150K
In reply to nocones :
Since I know nothing I'm learning as we go.
I do know there is a low volume foundry not far from here They do a lot of historic and artistic work in Cast iron, brass, and aluminum. Plus whatever else they do.
I vaguely recall them doing a one off Maserati block a long time ago.
frenchyd said:In reply to Slippery :
Sleeves put in too tight. Basically splitting the block into 3 pieces
That not completely dead, but its's really close to dead unless we are talking a 7 figure vintage car.
I have never seen a foundry do a one off even with a wax mold. It would take multiple attempts just to get the venting right. 5 axis is the play but you would need a good block to scan and even them the oil/coolant passaging could be none starter right out of the gate.
If I was in this situation, I wouldn't consider casting a new block. Heck, the machine shop screwed up the sleeves. There are 1000 ways to screw up a block.
I'd find a motor that wasn't the proper motor that was easy to swap in and get it running. Then I'd start looking for a complete parts car with a rebuildable block. It might take 10 more years to find it. A $20,000 parts car with a good block would put you way ahead of casting a block from scratch. Pull the motor, sell the rest of the car to recoup what you can.
Id be as active as possible on every related forum I could find, and probably make a few road trips to AZ and/or Canada scouring the boneyards for the right parts car.
There's no way I would try to have a new block cast. If the engine/ car is that valuable, the custom block with no ID numbers would devalue the car anyway, so why not a restomod?
Iron foundries are hard to find in the US, it all moved offshore years ago. If you have one locally, talk to them.
Sounds like old Hemi blocks might end up like Bugatti engines. Pur Sang makes replica engines so you can take the original one out and mothball it, then vintage race your Type 35 without risking a multimillion dollar engine pop.
Asphalt_Gundam said:Pretty much any Foundry won't touch it unless it's their designed mold, etc. Then you have the fact that unless you're getting A LOT of them, they don't want the job. I couldn't even find a foundry that would use a proven mold I already had and do a small production run for valve covers.....
The Cheapest (and fastest) DIY way would be: Buy a 5 axis CNC, Faro Arm, MasterCam, Tooling and a huge chunk of aluminum. Might be able to do it for under 150K
The local foundry I know of does a lot of art stuff, one off, Bells, Etc.
An engine Block you'd probably have to do open deck then weld the deck in place. Once everything had stabilized mill everything square. An ordinary mill will be fine unless you charge yourself for your time. . Later use top hat sleeves to seal it.
Once the block is squared up use the old main caps to locate the bolt holes for the crank and existing heads to ensure head bolt alignment. Really the only thing requiring measurement will be the location of the head locating dowels. You can measure one location and then using a transfer pin, mark the other.
Crank boring would be done after the block is decked. There are companies that specialize in line boring. Likely you've got 10-23 hours of work. But they'll give you a quote. Bring your old block with you
So the cam, oil galley etc would all line up. Boring up to the oil galley from the mains will require a guide held in place but could be done on a simple drill press. Maybe you should do a blind hole first so you don't have fragments coming loose. You could even drill up through the camshaft hole fit some Allen head tapered pipe taps in and drill back into the galley. Really depends on how the Chrysler factory did it in the first place.
Now the factory does all that in a couple of passes with gang drills. But doing them one at a time once the head is securely located isn't challenging at all.
Plenty of labor. Most in the set up. But all doable for a determined amateur.
I have an idea on how to get some produced with no initial expenditure, although I don't know at what final cost:
Make a CAD file of the block, upload it to Alibaba's manufacturer section with a full description of exactly what it is and how much they're worth, say you're interested in getting some produced, talk with any companies that ask questions but don't actually go ahead with it. Wait a few months and see how much the replacement blocks that will be available on there are going for 
331, 354, or 392? I'd put out feelers on the H.A.M.B. (Hokey Ass Message Board) Someone there has to know a guy who knows a guy...
You do not want to go down this route to pop out just one block: https://healeyfactory.com.au/services/dmd-australia/dmd-austin-healey-alloy-aluminium-engine-development-and-manufacturing-process/
Your best bet would probably be to reach out to Bare Block Motors: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/theres-a-new-hemi-in-town-bear-block-motors-392-hemi-block/
I don't see the block listed on their site, but they've already developed it. So your buddy might just need to contact them and find out how big of a group buy with how big of a pile of up-front cash it would take to get them to do a run.
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