KATYB wrote: yep cams are gear driven off eachother only one sprocket at the cams just like doing a sohc motor. and it only calls for 2.2 hours that should tell u something. pretty easy job.
that's what i said, booby traps!
KATYB wrote: yep cams are gear driven off eachother only one sprocket at the cams just like doing a sohc motor. and it only calls for 2.2 hours that should tell u something. pretty easy job.
that's what i said, booby traps!
the Fiat Twin Cam requires you to drain the coolant and pull the "t" fitting at the top of the head.. I can still do the job in less than an hour.. which is good as it needs to be done every 20,000
Alfa V6 manuals from the late 80's said to change the timing belt at 35K or "just before it breaks"!!!
Sky_Render wrote: The problem is, I *hate* timing belts. I don't like doing them on SOHC motors, let alone DOHC motors.
I am with you dude. I'm a Nissan/Infiniti tech, so there are only a few motors with timing belts (namely old trucks and vans). Its years between the times I do them, and I did my CR-V belt a couple weeks ago. Took me a whole Saturday to do tires, oil pan gasket, and timing belt service (water pump, seals, etc). The stupid tensioner bolt rounded off, so off to the store I went to get a new bolt. Now the crank pulley has a nice wobble to it, so I think I need to replace that. Grrr...stupid timing belts...my 203k Maxima is still going strong! (knock on wood) 
In reply to stafford1500:
Have you seen one that said that? I'm pretty sure they originally recommended 60k when they were new, and later changed it to 30k. 30k is what everyone does now though. At least its a really easy job (unless you have to change the crank seal).
dean1484 wrote:logdog wrote: It seems Japanese timing belts last alot longer than German ones.Understatement of the week!!!
And Italians way less than German.
I investigated all this when my 4runner was due. All it took was to hear that it is a non-interfence engine. I also heard from several techs that when they did them at 90k miles (the scheduled time), the belts looked excellent. I just don't have $500-600 to throw away right now and the power steering is still acting up.
you can't judge a timing belt by how it looks. I have seen some that snapped that still had all the lettering written on them and looked absolutely perfect except for where they went
mad_machine wrote: you can't judge a timing belt by how it looks. I have seen some that snapped that still had all the lettering written on them and looked absolutely perfect except for where they went
Dang it, you're not helping!
I think I'll wait until the car hits 200K. That would be 70K miles on the belt at that point. Heck, I might not even have the car any longer by then.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Whats so hard about timing belts? Pop the belt off, change any bearings, tensioners and oil seals as needed, make sure everything is lined up, throw the belt on, set the tension, roll it over by hand several times to check for alignment and button it up. If you were talking about a PT cruiser, or a 3000GT, I could understand, but a Toyota is easy.
The trouble is most timing belt motors are transverse, so everything is jammed against the strut tower. No room for tools, hands, or a way to get enough leverage on tight, rusty bolts. Then add in the "special tools" some manufactures require that you'll never need again. Off a tooth? you just wrote off the engine
Even some motors that point the right way, like Infinity's, are a nightmare.
Camshafts belong in the middle of the engine, not on top.
Now get off my lawn while I check my pushrods for straightness
In reply to Gearheadotaku:
Oddly enough, that's one area where TDi's are pretty good. You lock the crank, pump and cam at TDC and then pop the cam pully off. Tension the belt and then tighten the pully back down. While I won't argue a bit that access is tight, its not a bad job. Just tedious due to how much stuff has to come off... Plus the engine mount bolts to the block in the middle of everything. You do need VAG COM to fine tune the pump timing, but that's not hard either.
I just wish I had a reliable car to drive while I was doing all of this... Yes... The BMW broke today.... Again...
Gearheadotaku wrote:Kenny_McCormic wrote: Whats so hard about timing belts? Pop the belt off, change any bearings, tensioners and oil seals as needed, make sure everything is lined up, throw the belt on, set the tension, roll it over by hand several times to check for alignment and button it up. If you were talking about a PT cruiser, or a 3000GT, I could understand, but a Toyota is easy.The trouble is most timing belt motors are transverse, so everything is jammed against the strut tower. No room for tools, hands, or a way to get enough leverage on tight, rusty bolts. Then add in the "special tools" some manufactures require that you'll never need again. Off a tooth? you just wrote off the engine
I've done a PT Cruiser belt, and helped do a dodge 2.7 timing chain, you cant scare me. I also did the chain on a GM 2200 OHV without removing the oil pan, and it didn't leak when I was done. 90s Toyotas are the easiest FWD cars to work on ever. When my 92 Camry spun a rod bearing I had the timing belt ready to pull(was hoping for a bad water pump or something to that effect), the pan dropped, and the balance pack removed in an hour.
Then again, I'm also not afraid of drum brakes, points, carburetors, dwell meters, timing lights, and other scary things either.
I will admit, I was a bit of a negligent owner and waited till 90k mile before changing the t-belt on my Miata...the car was 22 yrs old. The old belt looks great; I saved it.
Sky_Render wrote:mad_machine wrote: you can't judge a timing belt by how it looks. I have seen some that snapped that still had all the lettering written on them and looked absolutely perfect except for where they wentDang it, you're not helping! I think I'll wait until the car hits 200K. That would be 70K miles on the belt at that point. Heck, I might not even have the car any longer by then.
Another problem.. a lot of belts don't just break.. their idler pulleys or any other pulley attached them will go and sieze.. with devestating results.
For example.. my volvo 850. The waterpump is driven off of the timing belt.
My Fiat had it's airpump driven off of a smaller belt attached to the exhaust cam pulley. When they went, they tended to make that cam jump a few teeth.. with the pistons coming up to say "hi!" to the valves.
So it is not always the belt that goes.. but the other things that are driven off of the belt that cause all the problems
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Then again, I'm also not afraid of drum brakes, points, carburetors, dwell meters, timing lights, and other scary things either.
I fear not these things either
Sky_Render wrote:KATYB wrote: yep cams are gear driven off eachother only one sprocket at the cams just like doing a sohc motor. and it only calls for 2.2 hours that should tell u something. pretty easy job.What part of "drop the passenger side motor mount" do you consider a "pretty easy job"?
really dang easy..,..., most fwd car even replacing the passenger side mount is only a 10 minute job. not talking rocket science here.
yea.. engine mounts are not hard.. especially on FWD cars. It may sound intimadating. but it really isn't
mad_machine wrote: yea.. engine mounts are not hard.. especially on FWD cars. It may sound intimadating. but it really isn't
Except the passenger side bracket on a TDi... the mount itself is easy... but damn did they squeeze the bracket that bolts to the engine in there tight. You can tell the whole thing was pre-assembled and then hung in the car afterwards. It's like a puzzle getting the thing out to access the timing belt.
I think the the lifespan is directly proportional to whether or not it's an interference engine and how hard of a job it is. For instance, the 944 is an interference engine with a 45k mile service interval, and some people say you're pressing your luck taking it past 30k. It's an all weekend job if you do it right and change everything else while you're in there, and kind of a pain in the ass. The VW Fox on the other hand is a non-interference engine and I never even looked to see what the service interval was, because I figured I'd change it when it broke. Well I finally changed the original belt at 293K miles because I was about to embark on the BA/BE rally in it, and it probably took me less than 30 minutes to change.
Sky_Render wrote:KATYB wrote: yep cams are gear driven off eachother only one sprocket at the cams just like doing a sohc motor. and it only calls for 2.2 hours that should tell u something. pretty easy job.What part of "drop the passenger side motor mount" do you consider a "pretty easy job"?
Ummm. Not knowing E36 M3 about volvos, perhaps the easiest part of the job? Two bolts? Maybe three?
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