How much would you pay for an Integra Type S?

DirtyBird222 said:

Keith Tanner said:

Also worth noting: a Model 3 Performance is $53,240, there are no dealer pricing games and you get $7500 back on your taxes.

Is Elon the background image on your phone? Do you have a poster of him in your shop and above your toilet? 

Note that it is possible to appreciate a vehicle without venerating a person. I don't post about Elon, I post about cars and occasionally rockets. And weird 10 year old BMWs, apparently.

What I posted about the M3P is objectively true - and you yourself have just posted that the dealer experience and pricing games are a problem with the Honda. If you're looking for a performance sedan in that price range, you would be foolish not to take the 3 into account. What does the hopped up Civic bring to the table that the hopped up golf cart does not?

Keith Tanner said:

DirtyBird222 said:

Keith Tanner said:

Also worth noting: a Model 3 Performance is $53,240, there are no dealer pricing games and you get $7500 back on your taxes.

Is Elon the background image on your phone? Do you have a poster of him in your shop and above your toilet? 

Note that it is possible to appreciate a vehicle without venerating a person. I don't post about Elon, I post about cars and occasionally rockets. And weird 10 year old BMWs, apparently.

What I posted about the M3P is objectively true - and you yourself have just posted that the dealer experience and pricing games are a problem with the Honda. If you're looking for a performance sedan in that price range, you would be foolish not to take the 3 minto account. What does the hopped up Civic bring to the table that the hopped up golf cart does not?

I wasn't trying to make it personal, I just find the humor that you offer by managing to slip in a Tesla comment into almost any conversation. 

I'm not going to take the bait on getting into another EV vs. ICE argument. Worthy try but, I have heard plenty of first hand horror stories about Tesla service and QC. So it seems like no matter how you slice up the argument, there's a downside somewhere. Also does that M3P have a third pedal and a silky smooth shifter? 

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

I talk about Miatas a lot too. That's because I mostly talk about stuff I know. I don't talk about things I know nothing about, which limits my contributions to a certain range. I also know a few things about Vanagons, old Cadillacs, old Land Rovers and other stuff, but none of them are $50k sports sedans so it didn't seem appropriate to mention them. I'm sure there's a BMW that is also a competitor, but I can't keep the current BMW model range straight so I can't say which one it is. An E39 M5 might be a really interesting option, though.

And that wasn't bait for an EV vs ICE argument. It's a legitimate question. If you're shopping that market, both cars have distinct attributes. The Tesla is a rocketship. The Honda has more pedals and a waggly lever. They use different fuels, but that's only part of it. 

Whenever I shop cars, I land on what I want and its price. Then I open up my research again to the market *in that price range*. That's often when I find there are options I hadn't considered before that are very viable and interesting. 

I think Keith is talking about that process here. If you're considering the Honda vs the Acura, why not consider something else different entirely? They're all cars. They all move our asses down the road at various velocities. When I was in high school we argued Ford vs Chevy. The argument is the same but the parameters have changed. Now, we are lucky enough to have differences in transaction experience as well. Don't care to deal with (St)Dealer antics? Go Tesla. You like a manual trans? Go Honda/Acura. I believe this to be the point Keith is making. We live in another Golden Age of horsepower, tech, and purchase options. Let's enjoy it and walk the buffet of choices a bit. 

Let's also be honest, Elon gets enough undeserved attention. Let's leave him out of a car debate. It's hard to separate a musician's personality from their music. Personally, I can't listen to Ted Nugent anymore. I mean I couldn't before he went wacko conservative but most definitely not now. Maybe we should try to apply the same rule to Elon and Tesla's? 

Yeah, that's basically it. The Tesla is a potentially interesting alternative to the Honda, and it's nowhere near as expensive as it used to be so you might not think it would be comparable. Just like "can you believe you can get an i8 for that price?" is also an interesting yet unexpected possible comparison. If 50k for an Integra is surprising, what else is surprising in that price range?

Looking around, there's also the Alfa Guilia in this bracket. Available in RWD or AWD. Is that an interesting alternative if you're looking for character? Or the Elantra N and $10k for a trip to the Nurburgring? There are some hot rod Cadillacs in this range, too. All sorts of interesting stuff. 

Was car shopping with my wife last weekend for my wife and the prices I saw for the 2023 Civic Type R was one at $75K and two at $62.3K. I don't see the Type S being available for cheaper and less marked up. That's a big "no dawg", no way I'd ever pay that for what it is. 

In reply to IKR :

And this is exactly why things like low mile C7 Z51s and other cars come into play for me.  An LS series drivetrain will easily last as long as a Honda one with good maintenance.  I really think a C6 or C7 will replace my Si in 3-5 years.

Well, shoot, I was just down the street and I might as well stop.......Elmhurst, IL Acura has a demo to test drive.  Due to my schedule I passed as it's like that first "free" line of cocaine.....

They have a demo with $12,000 worth of BS options and a $10,000 adjustment.   He told me they should get 13 more this year.  Wade Q. is super knowledgeable- work with him.  

He says I can buy one that's coming in with no options and he expects the adjustment to be less ($5-$7,000) if I read between the lines.  Pricey but it's a nice car.   

They had large Type S sedan car that was pricing out close up $70,000......maybe Accord size?  TLS?  TSX?  Sweet car.

Two interesting data points:

The first quarter of its release, the base Integra outsold the 3 series

Avg transaction price of a new car is $48,000. 

calteg said:

Two interesting data points:

The first quarter of its release, the base Integra outsold the 3 series

Avg transaction price of a new car is $48,000. 

Interesting fact. The Integra in person, is just so forgetable. I wish it had some styling cues as an homage to the past generations to include the RSX. 

I've tried to help a friend secure two seperate ones. Out the door price on both were over $75k. I can't believe people are actually paying that but I couldn't stomach that much for a hyped up Civic. 

I'm just ready for this insane markup trend to crash. I looked at an Odyssey the other day. The current generation has been around since what, 2018? Nothing stratospheric has changed on those recently. This particular Honda dealer had a $5k market adjustment on a base model Odyssey. 

I was looking at buying a car like the new Z for exmaple. Markups are so insane on everything i've been thinking of just buying a 350z and rebuilding it. 

My 1985 CRX came with all the paperwork including the original sales paperwork. It had a $1000 dealer markup - on a $7995 car. This is not a new thing.

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

I believe the Honda van is a new design.

The PT Cruiser and first VW retro Beetle had dealer markups when they came out.  

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

I'm sure they are nice but I am seeing used C7 Corvette Grand Sports and Z06s for less.  The back seats are a lot worse but the power and handling!  
 

I really do enjoy my '18 Si and I'm sure the Acura version is even better, but it will not be my next car.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I mentioned the total price to the sales guy and I also mentioned for those dollars I'd rather have something like a Shelby Mustang or a used Corvette.  $75,000+?

He then said I'm not a real JDM guy since a real JDM guy would pay the price. (Seriously)  So I laughed and dropped a side kick to his face. (Not really)

CX90 for that kinda coin in a heart beat...

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

The whole add on and market adjustment cons are out of control.  The fact people line up to pay them proves education is indeed compromised.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

MSRP is not an absolute determination of value. The market determines the actual value of the product, and it can be higher or lower than MSRP. We're all good with it being lower because it makes us feel like we've scored a deal and the US automakers have been abusing that for decades, but that's just marketing.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

MSRP is not an absolute determination of value. The market determines the actual value of the product, and it can be higher or lower than MSRP. We're all good with it being lower because it makes us feel like we've scored a deal and the US automakers have been abusing that for decades, but that's just marketing.

... assuming that the new car economy is efficient, rational and competitive when it is clearly none of those things.  What other consumer industry has laws that dictate who manufacturers are allowed to sell their products through?

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Acura isn't a US automaker :p but I get your point.  The dealers are the abusers of these tactics.  When buy a new car, it really does pay to shop around.  

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Expansion on my statement: The big three US automakers have been setting MSRP ridiculously high so they can mark it down and make consumers think they're getting a deal. It's been a long-standing marketing tactic. Other automakers don't do this quite so egregiously. 

The dealers don't set MSRP.  They get to the market price. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Guitar center has a perpetual 50% off sale ever holiday.  Yes it's an old tactic to provide the illusion of saving money.  The market does indeed set the price.  Like Forest's mama always said.....

This is simply not a $75k car.  You can buy an Audi RS3 for less than that and have a far better built and performing car

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

MSRP is not an absolute determination of value. The market determines the actual value of the product, and it can be higher or lower than MSRP. We're all good with it being lower because it makes us feel like we've scored a deal and the US automakers have been abusing that for decades, but that's just marketing.

... assuming that the new car economy is efficient, rational and competitive when it is clearly none of those things.  What other consumer industry has laws that dictate who manufacturers are allowed to sell their products through?

Depending on the state, liqour, beer and/or wine industries. 

My wife and I should be near the target demographic for this. We are reasonably successful professionals with no kids at home. We have owned Civic and Accord sedans. I even had a six speed, V6 Accord for a a while. A Prelude was one of my wife's favorites back in the day. Great cars, all of them. I also owned a Toyota Celica GTS for a while, a car of a  similar flavor. 

I like Hondas, and I prefer to drive manual transmissions. It seems expensive, but so does everything else. That's the reality for the time being.