How to lose $20,000... pick the wrong auction site.

THIS 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo with just 1,900 miles sold 2 days ago on Cars and Bids for $64,000. Not a bad price you say?

Except this 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo with 10,000 miles sold on Bring A Trailer for $83,000 back in January. That's $19,000 more (30% higher) for the same type of setup, a week long no reserve online auction. And the BaT car had 5x the miles and is a more common color. It's not just a single example, either.

This 3,100 mile 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo sold for (you might want to sit down) $135,944 on BaT the same month!

It's not just super-low mile rare P-cars, either. Pick any car with enough sales to have more than 1 across both platforms (C5 Z06, Shelby GT350, etc) and you will see similar differences in price.

The lesson is if you want to buy a car, check C&B because they are going for under market, and if you want to sell a car check BaT as they are the top of the market.

I don't feel that bad about specuative buyers getting burned, speculative sellers getting burned, and assume its simply money laundering. I'll never have to worry about loosing money selling a Porsche or any car for that  matter, because I don't sell cars.

If you want to sell a car locally for the best price, don't park it in your driveway with a hand lettered sign in the window.

We tell our customers with FM-built cars to list on BaT, and we support those sales by being involved with them. They get about the same prices as they did when we were listing them on our own site, partly because we always insisted on quality photos and a good write up.  

That's really wild just how different those final selling prices are, especially for how similar all three cars are.

For better or for worse, it looks like Bring a Trailer is the place to go for high-dollar sales.

A lot of famous people and car collectors shop BAT.  Cars and Bids is still up and coming really and isn't as well presented as BAT is.  Not as much as a Target vs Walmart aspect but you get that kinda feel between them.   Just my opinion of course

I still just don't understand the whole P-car craze. Especially these 944s (no offense).

maschinenbau said:

I still just don't understand the whole P-car craze. Especially these 944s (no offense).

I was thinking the exact same thing. Having driven everything from 356s to GT3-RS (strictly on track) any 944 over 30K would not be on my radar.  With that said several someones felt they are worth it.

As for the original topic; good information.

I thought BaT's equaling or exceeding the alluring absurdity of even Barrett Jackson was already a well established phenomena, and basically common knowledge at this point.

While the sites did play a factor, I think the presentation of the black one was a bigger factor.  The red one looks like a stand up car, the black one does not.

The black one is listed with, uneven sheet metal on hood, crease in the fender, heater sticks on, non working ac. If you want top dollar, you need to take the time/effort in to make it a top dollar car. Miles are not everything, condition is

A collector would rather pay the extra $20k then buy a $60k project car

Good timing for this topic. I have a friend who is ready to sell a 2017 Carrera 4 in Miami Blue over Chalk leather. It has 33k miles and is in near perfect condition. He's asked me to help find a broker/consignor that will sell the car via BaT. We live in North Florida. Anyone know of a good outfit to use either in FL or in the Southeast?

If we were in the PNW, I'd immediately recommend 911r who does incredibly well, but shipping the car across country doesn't make sense.

In reply to dyintorace :

Youre better off just paying for the top tier of BAT listings, they handle everything.

maschinenbau said:

I still just don't understand the whole P-car craze. Especially these 944s (no offense).

I mean anything in this price bracket is a collectible not something to be driven. I do actually kind of get that here because the 944 turbo is actually a pretty cool car, still looks decent today, and is now in the age range where it was a dream car of the people with money. But yes...for something to actually drive, they're $10k cars at best. And there's just no reason to even think about a n/a model, the turbo drivetrain is the redeeming quality to the car.

In reply to Javelin :

It's not just the site, or the presentation.  It's timing.  
   When I sold on BAT my Black Jack spl ( granted at the bottom of the 2008 recession)  my first sale was for $112,000 and while that was less than 1/2 of what I'd been offered earlier. I accepted it.  
3 days later the buyer backed out because he couldn't get financing.  
Frantically I put it back on, Bidding stopped just over $55,000 and I was forced to accept it.  

Resale red.

Bland black.

Cars and bids has a pretty bad interface compared with BaT. It looks cheap, and seems not 100% legit. If I hadn't seen you reference it I would avoid just because it looks and has the feel of a scammy site. 

In reply to frenchyd :

That was also back when the name meant bring your pickup truck and an open trailer, as opposed to now it means bring your toterhome garage-queen hauler.

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to dyintorace :

Youre better off just paying for the top tier of BAT listings, they handle everything.

Do you mean what they call Plus? That seems to only get you a professional photographer. That certainly is critical to success, but it's not going to take the place of the seller (my friend) having to monitor the auction and be ready to answer questions at a moment's notice. He's not a car guy and isn't going to be able to answer a bunch of nit-picky questions from the hoarde. 

I tried listing my M3 through BaT multiple times and kept getting denied. C&B was super easy, I didn't have to pay them a dime, and I still made out like a bandit. I also pushed the listing hard through a lot of social media channels on my own accord. 

In reply to dyintorace :

No need for a broker, BaT will do that. They give you someone to work with to fine-tune the listing , and will arrange for photography (for a fee) if necessary. That's about the only extra tier involved over the standard auction.

I would strongly recommend your friend participate in the auction, answering questions that pop up and generally being friendly and enthusiastic. People like to buy from someone they "know". If it's a broker, they'll probably have to go back to him for answers to some of the questions like the car history. He won't be expected to be able to recite the every possible tech spec of the 911 throughout history, just clear up questions about this specific car. And "I'm not a Porsche specialist" is a legit answer to an ubernerd question.

Photography is sooo important. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'll suggest that to him. It seems like the obvious route to me, but he's in a different tax bracket than I am. 

BaT has a limited number of auction slots, and I know several people who have tried to list cars there and been declined.  I suspect that many people who sell on carsandbids tried to sell on BaT, but couldn't get in.

I sold three cars last year on BAT, all were spectacular successes. You definitely get more exposure on BAT and you have to be on the auction constantly answering questions. @frenchyd definitely timing has a lot to do with it as you have to get the attention of the couple of bidders that are seriously interested in the car. I also try to time my auctions to not end at in inopportune time. So I coordinate with my auction specialist to start the auction so it does not end on a weekend or late on Friday night.

I just use my cell phone photos and do the same for Youtube videos, no reason to pay for a professional photo shoot.  Definitely the best place to sell special or rare cars. As an example, I could not get my MSM registered in MD as it would not pass emissions and I refused to take it back to stock as it was a hell of a build that deserved to be on a track. BAT found a buyer in Virginia that was looking for the perfect track car to take to VIR. Special car, found a good home and I did not have to deal with a bunch of kids trying to buy it cheap, like you find all day on FB Marketplace. 

dyintorace said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'll suggest that to him. It seems like the obvious route to me, but he's in a different tax bracket than I am. 

Then do it for him for a fee. If he's willing to pay a broker, be the broker

Steve_Jones said:

dyintorace said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'll suggest that to him. It seems like the obvious route to me, but he's in a different tax bracket than I am. 

Then do it for him for a fee. If he's willing to pay a broker, be the broker

We've talked about that option too.