My brother in law is looking to buy an early Mustang for his son Ford. Minor project work yet to be done is okay with him. Neither of us know those cars but so far the advice we've heard is to look out for rust on the frame and body- look out for too much bondo, which is fairly standard advice here in mid-Michigan anyway, of course.
He got a line on a 65 coupe with a 6 in it. Besides generic frame and body rust, is there anything in particular we should be looking out for?
Take a glass of water and pour it into the cowl vent between the hood and windshield. Then go see if the passenger’s side floor is wet.
How serious is it if it's wet?
Cowl vent is a big PITA. 6 cyl means all drums which is something I survived. 6 cyl also means he will never destroy the motor unless he actively works to do so. Trans is also pretty indestructible at that power level, but the rear end requires parts that no one makes anymore (last I checked at least)
To be pedantic, no frame on Mustangs, unibody with a front and rear subframe.
Look under the battery tray for rot caused by the battery acid. Under hard braking that front strut rod mount can break loose if the rust is too bad (ask me how I know, at least it wasn't my Mustang.)
I'm a huge fan of the 6 cylinder, and there is a large underdog following for them.
P3PPY said:How serious is it if it's wet?
Several dozen (40? 50?) spot welds to get patch panels in
6-bangers are 4-lug which severely restricts wheel options.
They made literally a million of them, don't overpay.
Expect the handling and breaking and steering to be so poor that farm tractors feel pretty good.
Cowl vent water check as mentioned.
The "Pony" interiors are significantly nicer.
The looks are classic and always in style. Don't Berk with it too much.
The three speed manual that they put behind the six cylinder was referred to as the Paper Transmission. The Dagenham four speed is stronger but super rare.
I’ve owned two ‘65 Mustangs. I was all about originality back then. Both were V8s. If I were buying another (I don’t think I will) I would probably get a six.
They may be my favorite cars ever, but I don’t really want another one.
I would strongly suggest shopping farther south, a drive would be worth it for a clean car. Something as simple as quarter panels run $1000-1500 per side. Fixing rust will eat into a budget real quick.
Also, ford electrics of the era were quirky to say the least. Make sure the wipers operate properly, they're a bitch to get right again. Also, if power brakes and steering are in the plans, buy a car already equipped. Its a mother to retrofit in my experience.
Fly and drive for the best driver you can afford.
I just sold this one and learned a little bit while I owned it. A local "Mustang guru" came to look at the car and bestowed some wisdom about these first generation cars upon me. He said that the 6-cylinder/automatic cars are going to be structurally "tighter" than V-8/stick cars because they weren't driven nearly as hard. They don't launch hard, don't torque the unibody or stop fast with the drum brakes. When he does restorations, they prefer to begin with a 6/auto unibody and then add the driveline of choice which is normally a 289/302, top loader/T-5 and a 9-inch rear.
My car was fine as a driver and weekend toy with the 200ci 6-cylinder as it was surprisingly peppy for what it was. If I were buying another one, I wouldn't shy away from a 6-cylinder car.
They have a drop in fuel tank with fuel filler located above rear bumper. Rear end collisions have been known to cause gasoline to splash/pour out. I would suggest a fuel cell.
outasite said:They have a drop in fuel tank with fuel filler located above rear bumper. Rear end collisions have been known to cause gasoline to splash/pour out. I would suggest a fuel cell.
For what it's worth, I have heard this hundreds of times and have never found a single verifiable story of it happening. Some guy's mother's third cousin on the father's side had it happen, but I've never found a first hand report or seen pictures of the aftermath.
That was my first car. 65 mustang with the 200 and a 3 speed. Not a speed freak but I remember that the squat was so bad it would carry the front wheel in a hard corner.
We restored a GT500KR a couple years ago.
Mustangs are rust buckets, like everything else from that era. Buy the best body you can afford, everything else is just open your wallet and pick the stuff you need out of a catalog.
Rust. Front framerails where they meet the firewall. Floor in general. where passenger outboard foot resides under dash and under carpet. Where lower door hinge bolts to body, Rear framerails in trunk under floorpan. Run gloved hand around rear wheel arch and see how thick it is with filler and repair panels. If you cant see the factory spotwelds quarter panel has been done so you figure if done right. Check bottom of doors for filler and rust.
The air intakes under the cowl all rust flooding out the interior, Tricky to see and no fun to fix, Google the fix.
Check for collision damage on the front frame rails. Check the rad cradle underneath to see if it was pulled out of a ditch using a hook. Check the shock towers as they crack.
Heater cores fail often. Wiring can be a mess after a few owners, Lights are non-relayed so switches burn out, Power steering system is retarded and surprisingly expensive to rebuild so be aware. LOTS of steering linkage to get sloppy.
As you know these cars are extremely popular and plentiful. I would suggest getting involved with a local Mustang group and find a guy or two that really knows the early cars to go shopping with you. The most important thing on these as everyone has noted is rust. However, there are a lot of 'restored' cars out there that have had some really dubious panel replacement and body work done. There are so many areas on these things that rot you really need someone who knows the cars to educate you in real time, IMO.
The six is a great way to get into the brand as they don't command the silly prices the V8 cars do. All of them handle like crap so do you really want more HP especially for a young driver? The 5 lug swap is all bolt-in from a V8 donor and you can move to front disc brakes at the same time. The 1 bbl Autolite carbs are becoming somewhat difficult to find in good shape now and with the 'log' intake you don't have many options to change to something else.
You can mail order the entire car. It has to be one of the easiest classic cars to own (if not restore).
https://augusta.craigslist.org/cto/d/grovetown-1966-ford-mustang/7137208828.html
Buy it for $8500, drive it home.
Get a car without rust. Like a car from the south or California.
My 2nd car was a '65 Fastback with a lot of hidden rust that cost a lot to repair. I found out later it was a Michigan car.
My first car was a '66 Mustang, 200 CID 6, 3 speed transmission. Early 70's in Louisiana.
I agree its hard to get in trouble with one of these. I remember trying to find its top speed and could not get to 100. I agree that engine will run for ever, its intake and exhaust are so restrictive its low power is not at all hard on the engine. I had teenage boy dreams of buying all the Clifford Research go-fast parts for the inline 6-
The 4-lug tiny drum brakes are crap. Allowing distance for brake fade is a thing with these cars, I can imagine what would happen with the braking if modern sticky tires were added instead of the slidey bias plys we had back in the day, stop faster but brake fade would be worse.
Forget about cornering, under steer allowance is also a thing.
I changed the transmission synchro's twice in that glass 3 speed and the clutch several times. (I was still learning to drive and I thought I was to be the next Don Gartlis, not that launches were possible since severe wheel hop is also a thing with these cars, actually for many cars of that era, all the "hot rod" guys had bolt on traction bars because of this)
At some point in the mid-70's I procured a wrecked V-8 Mustang and switched over the brakes, put in sintered metallic brake shoes, changed to the v-8 rear end, got a junk yard Toploader 4 speed, rebuilt it, and also I built up a 289 to probably 280 hp or so ( not bad for back then).
I added GT350 front springs, sway bars, good dampeners, traction bars to prevent wheel hop. I ended up with a really loud car, that stopped pretty good thanks to the metallic break shoes, handled somewhat better than the '66 with 6 cylinder, but probably would not have been able to beat the 2009 WRX I had later, in top speed or acceleration and definitely not in handling. I eventually switched all the parts over to the '65 Fastback because an idiot rear ended my '66 at a stop light and caved in both fenders, this absorbed some of the impact, no gas tank leak though a direct hit. By the way, the seats of that era had no head restraint.
Lucky I was young and tough or the whiplash would have been severe - My neck was sore for a only week. 62 year old present day me would probably require surgery and a remaining life time of misery for the same hit in that car today.
I'm gonna step over the line...
Is he buying an early Mustang for his son, or for himself?
There is nothing safe about a young person driving any car from the '60's as a daily driver. Especially one perceived as a Hot Rod.
I had a chance to buy one as my first car. It was a single owner car, and would have only been about 12 years old at that point. My father put his foot down and said no way. He was right.
Consider a newer one for safety.
My first car was a white '66 6 cylinder C-4 automatic with a blue green interior. Even though it only had 120hp I was sure it was a race car. We lived in the So Cal high desert at the time. There were hardly any sheriffs around and I hit 100mph on the long desert roads on a regular basis. I recently looked up the 0-60 time. 14.2 seconds! What a rocket! LOL!
I remember it as a fun car, but my 2011 GTI is a better car in every aspect except serviceability. Those 6 cylinders were simple and everything was easy to access.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:
There is nothing safe about a young person driving any car from the '60's as a daily driver. Especially one perceived as a Hot Rod.
Consider a newer one for safety.
This is no joke, the steering shaft in these old mustangs is a straight steel rod over 2 feet long coming out of the steering box. Basically a spear aimed at your heart in a crash, not that they have any crash protection anyway. I have seen old mustangs in wrecks that basically split them in to multiple pieces. Once a saw a kid hit a telephone pole with a '66 Notch back.. The front half of the car included his seat. When I got to him he was still sitting in the seat with the most bewildered look on his face, unharmed because of shear luck . The back half of the car was probably 100 feet away.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:I'm gonna step over the line...
Is he buying an early Mustang for his son, or for himself?
There is nothing safe about a young person driving any car from the '60's as a daily driver. Especially one perceived as a Hot Rod.
I had a chance to buy one as my first car. It was a single owner car, and would have only been about 12 years old at that point. My father put his foot down and said no way. He was right.
Consider a newer one for safety.
I spent years in the resto parts business. several specifically in Mustang. I have to agree with Paul. I wouldn't own one without a FIre Stopper (or similar) installed. My friend Chris was the supplier for them to NPD, they sold tons of them. The top of the fuel tank IS the trunk floor, and there the jack-all between the passenger compartment and the trunk if it ruptures.
They are great toys to play with, plus insane aftermarket support for all budget levels. But if the kid wants a DD Mustang, get him something from a year with airbags and ABS. If it is a toy for Dad and son, I'll agree with starting off with a six cylinder car and go from there. Just remember to not half-ass a V8 swap, the results are a car that doesn't stop and overheats.
To tag along with SVreX et al...
I was surprised to read the original post that implies the kid wants a '66 Mustang. Sure, I can see the dad wanting one but I find it hard to believe that the kid wants one. If the kid wants one it I suspect it is only because the dad wants one.
Most of us have seen this, but it's worth repeating. All parents who love old cars should consider:
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