Hummer EV

https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev

Looks like my FJ.

Thoughts?

I like it. I hate the name. Should have called it a Jimmy. 

They needed something. 

I think the name is a bit of a poke at the green segment and I kind of like that they have a little bit of a sense humor. 

I think it also is saying "hay you can be tough and green".  Or green with an attitude is ok.  I hope it succeeds as we need more of this kind of things.   

dean1484 said:

They needed something. 

I think the name is a bit of a poke at the green segment and I kind of like that they have a little bit of a sense humor. 

I think it also is saying "hay you can be tough and green".  Or green with an attitude is ok.  I hope it succeeds as we need more of this kind of things.   

They just need to figure out how to convert the brodozer market and the rest will follow.  Maybe a "roll coal" option with a small onboard coal fired steam engine?

But seriously, this a shot over the bow of Tesla, Rivian and all other early electric truck entries to get some market hype and early adoption before going all out with a full-size truck EV.

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

z31maniac said:

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

1)  I just recently realized Lowes will deliver lumber to you for $59.  berkeley owning a truck to save $59 a couple times a year.  Also, that $59 saves me the trip to Lowes!

2)  Probably to around 200 miles, depending on aero.  But, I what % of truck owners tow 5000lbs with their truck?  5%?

I support EVs, but I don't really see a fullsize truck with that kind of range and power as 'Green'.  Greener than the alternative 1000hp gas version?  Probably.

A lot of people E36 M3 on the Ford Hybrid F150.  I think a F150 Hybrid with the base engine (hybrid is only 3.5 EB right now) would be a fantastic truck.

In reply to ProDarwin :

This truck is for neither. Much like the original Hummer H2, the new one is for posers.  It's cool that it's an electric truck, but a Silverado with a bunch of batteries in the frame would be better in every practical way. Or, as you say, a PHEV version so you can have efficiency when you are cruising on the highway as well as in town.

z31maniac said:

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

Trucks get used in a bunch of different ways. For some, it's non-stop cross country towing with the driver peeing into a bottle (according to what I've read on the internet). For others, it's drive to a worksite - maybe with a trailer carrying equipment - and run a bunch of battery operated tools all day. For others, it's running all over town delivering and picking up stuff. Obviously an EV is least suited to the first case. But it's really well suited to the second and third. 

Heck, that Lowes truck is a truck. How much easier would it be for Lowes if they never had to worry about filling it up or maintaining an ICE? Assuming they do actually maintain the ICE. But I think you get the point. Instead of having to figure out if the latest customer filled the tank or whatever, you just plug it in and voila. It's ready for the next rental.

Trucks can take a lot of batteries without really affecting how they work. The engine alone in my Dodge is about 1200 lbs. There's loads of space. It's not like you're trying to squeeze electrification into a lightweight roadster :) The performance is a side product of a lot of battery and a high torque motor. 

As for GM marketing it as a Hummer - they could have called it a Camaro :) Based on the way people have reacted to Ford's naming choices, resurrecting a brand that has big, tough, burly associations to most of the market is a pretty smart move.

Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:

Or, as you say, a PHEV version so you can have efficiency when you are cruising on the highway as well as in town.

Or just HEV.  If a HEV drivetrain can improve the F150 economy the same way it does for an Avalon, Highlander or Fusion, that's a fantastic, especially when we are talking truck economy numbers.

Keith Tanner said:

z31maniac said:

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

Trucks get used in a bunch of different ways. For some, it's non-stop cross country towing with the driver peeing into a bottle (according to what I've read on the internet). For others, it's drive to a worksite - maybe with a trailer carrying equipment - and run a bunch of battery operated tools all day. For others, it's running all over town delivering and picking up stuff. Obviously an EV is least suited to the first case. But it's really well suited to the second and third. 

Heck, that Lowes truck is a truck. How much easier would it be for Lowes if they never had to worry about filling it up or maintaining an ICE? Assuming they do actually maintain the ICE. But I think you get the point. Instead of having to figure out if the latest customer filled the tank or whatever, you just plug it in and voila. It's ready for the next rental.

Trucks can take a lot of batteries without really affecting how they work. The engine alone in my Dodge is about 1200 lbs. There's loads of space. It's not like you're trying to squeeze electrification into a lightweight roadster :) The performance is a side product of a lot of battery and a high torque motor. 

As for GM marketing it as a Hummer - they could have called it a Camaro :) Based on the way people have reacted to Ford's naming choices, resurrecting a brand that has big, tough, burly associations to most of the market is a pretty smart move.

This is true. I realize I'm just looking at it from the stand point of how I would likely use a truck. That or load it full of camping gear to go away for a long weekend. If someone was using it, as you say, to run around and make deliveries all day.......does a $70k truck make more sense than a fleet F150 that costs $45k less? 

When high speed charging becomes more ubitiqous, of course this will all change. 

ProDarwin said:

z31maniac said:

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

1)  I just recently realized Lowes will deliver lumber to you for $59.  berkeley owning a truck to save $59 a couple times a year.  Also, that $59 saves me the trip to Lowes!

2)  Probably to around 200 miles, depending on aero.  But, I what % of truck owners tow 5000lbs with their truck?  5%?

 

I support EVs, but I don't really see a fullsize truck with that kind of range and power as 'Green'.  Greener than the alternative 1000hp gas version?  Probably.

 

A lot of people E36 M3 on the Ford Hybrid F150.  I think a F150 Hybrid with the base engine (hybrid is only 3.5 EB right now) would be a fantastic truck.

Depending on how much you buy, it may even be free. I know they delivered my $200 deep freeze on my Monday for free.

It used to be you needed to spend $399+ to get free delivery. I think, wouldn't testify to that.

I've seen some analysis that shows the Rivian with the longest range (400 miles), towing an 11,000 lb box trailer at 60MPH, the range is 110 miles or so. 

I personally would want 300 miles for a 5k pound boat, for my 2 times a year towing MAX, or about 180 miles for what is my realistic normal towing - and that is unlikely right now. 

I really hate that I spent time reading through this thread. 

z31maniac said:

Keith Tanner said:

z31maniac said:

I don't really get the point of full-size truck EVs. Sure, if you need to go to Lowe's to get lumber (which you can just rent a truck from them for the day)..........and it's not like you are going to get any useful range if you are actually towing, say, a car. 

If a truck has a 400 mile range, what does it drop to when pulling 5,000 lbs?

Trucks get used in a bunch of different ways. For some, it's non-stop cross country towing with the driver peeing into a bottle (according to what I've read on the internet). For others, it's drive to a worksite - maybe with a trailer carrying equipment - and run a bunch of battery operated tools all day. For others, it's running all over town delivering and picking up stuff. Obviously an EV is least suited to the first case. But it's really well suited to the second and third. 

Heck, that Lowes truck is a truck. How much easier would it be for Lowes if they never had to worry about filling it up or maintaining an ICE? Assuming they do actually maintain the ICE. But I think you get the point. Instead of having to figure out if the latest customer filled the tank or whatever, you just plug it in and voila. It's ready for the next rental.

Trucks can take a lot of batteries without really affecting how they work. The engine alone in my Dodge is about 1200 lbs. There's loads of space. It's not like you're trying to squeeze electrification into a lightweight roadster :) The performance is a side product of a lot of battery and a high torque motor. 

As for GM marketing it as a Hummer - they could have called it a Camaro :) Based on the way people have reacted to Ford's naming choices, resurrecting a brand that has big, tough, burly associations to most of the market is a pretty smart move.

This is true. I realize I'm just looking at it from the stand point of how I would likely use a truck. That or load it full of camping gear to go away for a long weekend. If someone was using it, as you say, to run around and make deliveries all day.......does a $70k truck make more sense than a fleet F150 that costs $45k less? 

When high speed charging becomes more ubitiqous, of course this will all change. 

High speed charging is only an issue if you travel more miles in a day than you have range. And even then, you just top up while you're having lunch. 

Let's assume we use the truck for 100k miles. Over that mileage, you'd save a considerable amount of fuel cost as well as maintenance - no oil changes, no transmission fluid changes, no coolant flushes - and no downtime to perform them. The base F150 is rated at 18 mpg city, which means over 5500 gallons of fuel. At $2.50 gallon (I'm being optimistic here!) that's basically $14k worth of fuel alone. So that $70k truck does become more affordable, but maybe not as affordable as the cheapest possible F150 obtained at 10% less than MSRP :) It may have more capability than that minimum F150. I'm not sure what the spec of our $70k EV is.

Going away for a long weekend - again, that depends on how far you're going. If you spend most of your camping weekend driving, that's a problem. If you spend most of your camping weekend just camping, well, EV trucks can sit in a campsite too :)

My point is not that EV trucks can replace ICE trucks under every circumstance - but there are many use cases where they can replace ICE trucks. And there are more use cases than edge cases.

All this focus on electric vehicles is a crap shoot. Never before has so much attention and spending been focused on a market with such uncertain near-term profits. I'm no electric-car opponent. I expect my wife's next car to be something along the lines of Tesla model Y. So I think that all these upcoming models are cool as hell. But in the back of my brain I can also forsee a scenario where the market goes into glut mode real quick, vehicles have to be sold at a loss, and the manufacturer's go limping back to their dens with anti-EV sentiments.

They should put really noisy differentials in it and do a drift video to cement the idea that EV's make a terrible whine.

tremm said:

Does gmc have any reputation with this? I see 1000hp, 11500 ftlbs, and gmc together and am inclined to write it off

Does anybody have any reputation with this? It's a dedicated all electric truck/SUV platform. It's going to have tons of power. Nobody else has anything like this for sale yet either (although many start ups and legacy manufacturers are working on something similar). The closest current analog might be a Tesla Model X, but they're less powerful, don't offer a bed, and come from a small, controversial automaker.

When this thing comes to market its competitors will be Ford's electric F150, Rivian will be offering something very similar (start up with no reputation), and the Tesla Cybertruck (controversial and on a Tesla timeline).

tremm said:

Does gmc have any reputation with this? I see 1000hp, 11500 ftlbs, and gmc together and am inclined to write it off

Well gmc is a very popular and extremely profitable brand. I've heard the Denali part of gmc alone makes more profit then Range Rover.

In completely unrelated news, GM has announced they're going to work with EVgo to build out a network of 2700 fast chargers. That's the number of chargers, not the number of stations - figure 500-600 charging stations with a minimum of 4 chargers each. The plan is to put them by “grocery stores, retail outlets, entertainment centers and other high-traffic locations.” Which is a little weird, because unless you can't charge at home it's pretty unlikely you'd need to charge during the day unless you're running an EV with a fairly short range. I totally get the convenience of being able to shop while you charge - we've done this in Denver - but it wouldn't happen in your home town.

For perspective, Tesla has 1800 stations with 16,000 chargers. Roughly half of those stations are in the US, so this plan is for 60-70% of the number of Tesla stations in the US. This is not a pro-Tesla post, it's comparing the GM plans to the largest network that is out there at the moment.

Keith, where would you put the chargers along the interstate system if you were in charge?

I'm wondering if the plan to put all the charging stations in "high traffic locations" is intended to get people who cannot charge at home to consider an EV. It also opens up the viability of a low-range EV - which would have the benefit of also being less expensive because range and battery cost are directly related. So if you want a cheap EV you can run when you're parking on the street, these stations are what you'd need. It opens GM up to sell something that slides in under the Bolt in terms of cost and capability. Ironically, something more like what EVs were before Tesla started changing things.

I'd be tempted to put the chargers close to where gas stations are now. Or more accurately, where you find restaurants and casual shopping environments. When you're on a road trip and you need a charge, you'll want something to do. When we drive to Denver, we charge while we eat because we were going to eat anyhow, so our charging stop is "free" in that regard. The restaurant near the Superchargers benefits.

The Tesla ones are already set up like that across Utah because the rhythm there is a town every 50 miles with nothing in between. So you HAVE to put the chargers in towns, and of course that's also where the comfort stop infrastructure is. Anyone stopping around there is pretty much by definition non-local because the interstate traffic volume dwarfs the local population.

In a more densely populated area...I'm not that sure. My EV experience is with one that charges at home and has significant range along with the ability to recharge faster than just about anything else, so I'd have a different set of priorities than someone who recharges more slowly and more often. If you're driving your early BMW i3 all over Denver all day long, the shopping mall option makes some sense. For the Hummer, I anticipate significant range because you can put a lot of battery in a truck from both a monetary and packaging standpoint. So those trucks are more likely to be charged at night and have to run all day, and this network won't be that useful.

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith, where would you put the chargers along the interstate system if you were in charge?

McDonald's.

ProDarwin said:

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith, where would you put the chargers along the interstate system if you were in charge?

McDonald's.

That's the short version of my answer :) 

More like, McDonalds should install chargers...