Hypothetical, 3 wheel challenge

JThw8 wrote:

chaparral wrote: May I take a secondhand FSAE car and convert it into a three-wheeler? Heck, you could use 90% of the FSAE rules; they're basically "Car must not have stupid safety hazards".

Did you build said FSAE car? Theoretically this is a challenge to prove your own building and engineering prowess, but at the same time that fits the rules much better than just adding a wheel to a bike. I'd probably allow it (were I in charge or something)

I've built a couple. I won't use any of them - don't want to cut up running/driving machinery that has some serious craftsmanship built into it. I'd rather use a "ran first time at competition, didn't pass tech" car.

JThw8 wrote:

mndsm wrote: I don't have the skills to build it- but I actually have a pretty good idea of what I would like to see.

Skills are gained by doing, you can do it :)

I'd give it a whirl if I got my hands on a welder. Actually.... I know a guy that just earned whatever the highest cert is possible in aluminum/Ti TIG welding... I suspect calling in a favor might be in order.

chaparral wrote: I've built a couple. I won't use any of them - don't want to cut up running/driving machinery that has some serious craftsmanship built into it. I'd rather use a "ran first time at competition, didn't pass tech" car.

I'm not the official governing body or anything, but if I were I'd allow it. It is a scratch built machine which is really the point.

mndsm wrote: I'd give it a whirl if I got my hands on a welder. Actually.... I know a guy that just earned whatever the highest cert is possible in aluminum/Ti TIG welding... I suspect calling in a favor might be in order.

See, all obstacles can be overcome.

Part of me is focused on my original smack talk to the other thread that I could probably build it out of spare parts. I do have plenty of 128-X1/9-Yugo drivetrains here. I could detune an 1100 to get good economy and hook it to the spare 5 speed...drivetrain done!

Forgive my naïveté but could this thread be any more 'on-topic' ?

Tralfaz wrote: Forgive my naïveté but could this thread be any more 'on-topic' ?

You mean should it be in the GRM section instead of Off Topic? I dunno, I never know where to draw the line. JoeyM will spot this sooner or later and if he deems so it can move over to GRM :)

Ok, I got an itch to build this thing, I just need a reason...and time....and money....

Gah! I've been dreaming of building a trike for years... I only have a few drawbacks: no welder... infantile fab skills... no room... poor scrounging skills... buried in too many projects now...

Tralfaz wrote: Forgive my naïveté but could this thread be any more 'on-topic' ?

It's very grassroots, as well, and arguably efficiency challenges are a form of motorsport.

In any event, I suspect my "bring a nuke to a knife fight" strategy to life is showing through here. I imagine a Kawasaki Ninja 250 would be INFINITELY more usable than a GSXR motor, easier to work with (instead of frilly electronics, I have a carb. A carb) and significantly cheaper.... as running ones can be had for 1500 bucks. I imagine I could get on/in a dumped one that some learner got scared of for next to nothin. I actually imagine I could repurpose a LARGE portion of the bike, depending on what the design parameters are. I have a frame design in mind that would be... relatively easy to manufacture assuming I have the slightest idea what i'm doing. And I really don't. Oh well. Maybe I'll get my scribble on and do some designing.

Ian F wrote: Gah! I've been dreaming of building a trike for years... I only have a few drawbacks: no welder... infantile fab skills... no room... poor scrounging skills... buried in too many projects now...

And now I shall offset your drawbacks with a positive. Croydon, PA is less than an hour from Mullica Hill, NJ. Welcome to Team Bad Ideas (aka Misfit Toys Racing)

JThw8 wrote: And now I shall offset your drawbacks with a positive. Croydon, PA is less than an hour from Mullica Hill, NJ. Welcome to Team Bad Ideas (aka Misfit Toys Racing)

If I didn't work an hour-plus north of Croydon, it would be tempting...

Ian F wrote:

JThw8 wrote: And now I shall offset your drawbacks with a positive. Croydon, PA is less than an hour from Mullica Hill, NJ. Welcome to Team Bad Ideas (aka Misfit Toys Racing)

If I didn't work an hour-plus north of Croydon, it would be tempting...

I work an hour plus north of Mullica Hill, that's what weekends are for :)

I would build a Moto Guzzi V-Twin powered Morgan three wheeler replica.

Bugger, its a really bad thing when others give you a reason to do something you've been wanting to do for a long time. Even had a bench build session with another GRM'er about it! So WARRENK, wanna build something? If GRM would graciously add this to the challenge, I could possibly maybe probably force myself into the garage to knock something together! Thinking 400cc single cylinder quad engine, some dwarf car spindles, and a total weight of 500ish pounds. Now, 7-ish style or exo frame inspired...
Paul

Just so that we don't reinvent something that already exists, does anyone know what mpgs a current morgan 3 wheeler gets? I know they weigh about 1200 lbs and are rated for 120 bhp. They are allegedly quite nimble and non slow.

What I am imagining is a morgan-esque vehicle with an aircraft style canopy (preferably buble style, but for grassroots construction something multi pain would be ok).

I'm thinking about lifting a motor and control system from a 24v electric forklift & grafting the motor into the cvt from a maxiscooter. Or it might just be easier to keep the gas engine and megasquirt it. I know that there are some liquid cooled maxis, so they would be my first choice if I took that route.

.

JThw8 wrote:

Tralfaz wrote: Forgive my naïveté but could this thread be any more 'on-topic' ?

You mean should it be in the GRM section instead of Off Topic? I dunno, I never know where to draw the line.

Meh. I don't think it really matters....we all get to stuff via recent/latest topics anyway. FWIW, though, I'll move it to GRM for now. If y'all actually start to do something I'm move it to build threads.

Would this qualify?

Take a geo metro or diesel rabbit, cut off behind B pillar, boat tail and 3rd wheel, some aero on the front, done?

I've got an 85 kW electric powertrain that was retired from $20xx duty, I'm pretty good with packaging batteries, I stole my dad's welder, and the VW GX3 gives me a stiffy.

Let me know when you're ready to play.

Bryce

I realize the rules say to build from scratch, but if I set that aside, I'd take a front half-cut from a Geo Metro XFI, and fab up a back frame half to take an (un-driven) motorcycle swing axle.

Since the Metro got about 55mpg highway, and you'd probably be reducing the weight down to around 13-1400 lb, I bet you could get a solid 60mpg from it.

(At least that's what my bench build tells me!)

mndsm wrote:

Tralfaz wrote: Forgive my naïveté but could this thread be any more 'on-topic' ?

It's very grassroots, as well, and arguably efficiency challenges are a form of motorsport. In any event, I suspect my "bring a nuke to a knife fight" strategy to life is showing through here. I imagine a Kawasaki Ninja 250 would be INFINITELY more usable than a GSXR motor, easier to work with (instead of frilly electronics, I have a carb. A carb) and significantly cheaper.... as running ones can be had for 1500 bucks. I imagine I could get on/in a dumped one that some learner got scared of for next to nothin. I actually imagine I could repurpose a LARGE portion of the bike, depending on what the design parameters are. I have a frame design in mind that would be... relatively easy to manufacture assuming I have the slightest idea what i'm doing. And I really don't. Oh well. Maybe I'll get my scribble on and do some designing.

Are there any motorcycles out there that are well known for fuel economy? Not talking mopeds, but something that can be used as a commuter on a highway, but it more about economy.

Seems like there should be- I've seen a lot of bike commuters in Europe, none of them were sport bikes at all. So if there is even a 500cc motor that's well renown for economy....

(still bench designing the powertrain- I'm kind of torn between a simple air cooled pusher bike vs. a known car engine that's quite good on fuel- either a Metro 1.0l or a CRX HF motor)

• Swipe a Toyota 4AFE motor and electrics out of a Corolla, as well as the suspension pickups/subframe assembly, steering bits and pedals
• Add a teeny turbo.
• Graft all of it into a scratch built tube frame cockpit/reverse trike front half.
• Rear swingarm donated from an aluminum framed dirtbike gets bolted on.
• Plumb some lines for brakes and whatnot
• Win at life?

5 speed 93-03 Corollas and their consumables are dirt cheap and available everywhere. Parts are really inexpensive, and widely available.Very fuel efficient, lightweight, compact I4 power-trains that could really benefit from about 5lbs of boost without really needing to tweak much at all in terms of EFI control.

In reply to alfadriver: I don't think that any of the mainstream bikes available in the US have been designed or tuned with fuel economy in mind. Some of the maxiscooters might be (250cc and up).

I wonder if there are any 4 cycle snowmobile engines under 500cc that have reverse? That would be a fantastic starting point if it existed.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Take a geo metro or diesel rabbit, cut off behind B pillar, boat tail and 3rd wheel, some aero on the front, done?

EvanR wrote: I realize the rules say to build from scratch, but if I set that aside, I'd take a front half-cut from a Geo Metro XFI, and fab up a back frame half to take an (un-driven) motorcycle swing axle. Since the Metro got about 55mpg highway, and you'd probably be reducing the weight down to around 13-1400 lb, I bet you could get a solid 60mpg from it. (At least that's what my bench build tells me!)

Since these are hypothetical rules anyway all approaches are welcomed. But if I were to do such an event the point would be to showcase things that could potentially be built and sold either in kit or completed forms, not necessarily one-offs built by trycycling an existing car.

But hey, I say welcome all comers and let the judging criteria settle it. :)

Stuart Mills threw in his entry a few years ago with the Eco-Exo.

One cool US Build: http://www.mevowners.proboards.com/thread/3601/wisconsin-eco-build-edward-belkom

Another: http://www.mevowners.proboards.com/thread/3717/worcester-massachusetts-build

In reply to Warren v:

That is cool, must go read more. Very nice simple design.

As a real, usable, all-weather, mass producable, reasonably priced machine, I don't think that it can be done at that weight point. At 1000 lbs. it should be manageable. If there's a 100+MPG Locost out there (there is), I don't see why a 3-wheeler couldn't be made to those goals.