Hypothetical street mpg/fun build

So lets say that I buy a Saturn SW# for a few hundred bucks. Assume it's broken and icky, but rust free.

How many dollars would I need to spend to make it truly fun, on the street primarily, but not out of its league on an autocross course? What woyuld those dollars go to?

Bear in mind that the thing would have to be hyper cheap to drive (maintain or gain fuel economy) at the same time, and I would need to maintain the utility of the four door/four seat/hatch.

Lets see your recipe. Be specific.

My 96 SW1 has been circling the drain for a few years now. I have done some experiments on it that I wouldn't normally do to a car I cared about.

The SOHC engine in the one series Saturn give excellent MPGs and can tow a trailer fairly well. My 96 usually gave 36 MPG daily driving.

My experiment was to draw hot air into the engine and also alter the air/fuel ratio to run at 15.2:1

IAT moved from airbox the intake tube.

Cold air intake was blocked and hot air from the exhaust manifold was plumbed in.

I installed an Innovative Motorsports LC2 wideband controller and programed an offset so the car would run at 15.2 AFR. The Wideband controller reads the actual air fuel ratio and sends a false signal to the ECM to keep the check engine light at bay.

I ran the car this way for almost 20K miles and saw a constant 40+ MPG. The drawback is the car idled crappy and had trouble towing a heavy trailer. For extreme events I would plug in the laptop and re-flash the LC2 for zero offset to regain some power.

I removed the system this summer and the car is back to normal. No detectable engine damage has occurred and this is sort of a safe mod for MPG improvement.

I wouldn't try this on a DOHC engine because of issues with the exhaust valves burning out on # 3 cylinder.

I'd start with a Neon instead.

Swank Force One wrote: I'd start with a Neon instead.

I really want a hatchback. But fine. Go ahead and preach-on, brother SF1. Tell me of your Neon recipe for the same.

I get 38 mpg with my 95 sw2, mp3 5speed with a mp2 5th gear swap, aftermarket cruise set at 68mph. No wideband no hot air setup, bone stock 228k. I love it.

tuna55 wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I'd start with a Neon instead.

I really want a hatchback. But fine. Go ahead and preach-on, brother SF1. Tell me of your Neon recipe for the same.

Oh, that might be a problem, then, sorry.

I'd roll with an SOHC car, use the longer trans (can't remember if DOHC or SOHC had the longer one, been awhile, sorry.), intake/header/exhaust, Mopar ECU.

Should easily pull down mid to high 30s, and it doesn't take much to make a Neon handle.

Bonus: There's so many of these in junkyards that you'd never have to buy any repair parts for more than $5.

Accord Wagon, F23A1 VTEC swap, tune it. 40+ mpg, much better chassis and interior, and a LOT more power. The F23A1's VTEC system works by having only one intake valve open prior to VTEC engagement and can mimic a 'lean burn' condition to get crazy good mileage.

If you really want a hatch, and have a real head turner on top of that, you could always buy my Yugo. Its basically impossible to exceed the speed limit in it, and a riot in the process, you'd struggle to get under 30mpg in it, I saw closer to 40.

Rabbit GTI with one of the popular swaps.

you guys are bad (or fantastic) at this game. I cannot tell which.

My old acr neon, which i beat like I hated it, got 32-35 every step of the way. That was with the stiff yrans, aggressive alignment, and a motor going to hell.

Wife had a 94 saturn sl1 with an auto when we got married. Epitome of soul sucking appliance. But 36-40 no matter what. I cannot imagine that car ever being fun.

So buy a neon brian. Just a four door. Amazing amount of crap fits in them.

I know what Brian really wants. And it comes in a useful hatch form, too...

Theoretically, with a home-brew FI setup 30+ mpg is possible. I've seen 30 out of mine on the highway with carburetors and my wife driving.

"How do I build a Saturn..."

=

1: Like this

1: My Saturn was cool

6: Buy (----) instead

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

OK yeah fine, I do want that, but not for a real DD for me.

Yeah i'm sorry... i rage whenever that happens to me, but i have some experience with an SC2 or two, and i don't think i'd bother putting any money into one at this point. The Neon is just better in every way (except when comparing wagons) and probably cheaper/easier/faster.

Concerning Volvo fuel mileage... I managed to get 35 mpg in my 66 Volvo 1800S, it was equipped with the overdrive.

As far as gain mpg and gaining power... a conservative port job will often times return better mileage AND better power. Blend the bowls and seats, clean up short radius, and a nice 3 angle

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

Yes, The OD would help. My 122 wagon was originally an automatic, though, so it has the 4.1 gearset in the axle instead of the 4.56 gears the manual transmission cars came with. And it was converted to a manual.

More often I drive my 4 door 122, though. I've gotten 32 mpg with that, cruising at a steady 60 mph, again sans OD. Usually it's more in the mid-20's; I drive it pretty "spiritedly". As far as power...it'll never run away from traffic, but it's never failed to keep up with it. Yes Brian, you do want one for a DD. its fantastically fun, turns heads, makes friends, reliable, and cheap to run.

I self-ported a B20 (F head, IIRC, 8.5 static CR) in our LeMons racecar and it seemed to run pretty strong. With all of the other goodies we had on that mill I'd estimate it was a healthy 130 hp. It also had 4.88 gears; top speed of about 90 mph!

Here, go buy these.

http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4641811690.html

And quit making that face.

I think the answer to your question is: "Don't buy a Saturn".

Any alternate gear ratios available for the Saturn?

I had a CRX HF that had an interesting ratio that let it loaf pretty nice on the highway. And through some detective work, figured out a similar ratio/Final Drive set up that would go into a Miata.

Basically, the HF and the Miata mod had a much lower final, but a 1-3 gear set that was pretty close to original (or base CRX), but 4th 1:1 and 5th OD really gave some advantages.

Are there multiple gear sets for the Saturn? IMHO, that was the biggest fuel economy gain- it compromised 4th and 5th performance to gain a ton of FE. Lean burn was just a little help.

I think the answer to your question is: "Don't buy a Saturn".

I wish there was a 5th gear swap for the Neon. Even the sohc 3.55 could push a taller 5th. Most people claim 40+ is possible on highway with a stock SOHC neon, but it tapers drastically with speed. And a stock sohc neon is about as fast and handles better than a stock DOHC saturn.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Here, go buy these. http://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/4641811690.html And quit making that face. I think the answer to your question is: "Don't buy a Saturn".

Clearly a primer rattle can Volvo which apparently comes with another car, the details of which are as follows: seems to be mostly white. Bonus points for ridiculously terrible wheels and no condition of any sort even implied in the ad.

You sure can pick 'em.

alfadriver wrote: Any alternate gear ratios available for the Saturn? I had a CRX HF that had an interesting ratio that let it loaf pretty nice on the highway. And through some detective work, figured out a similar ratio/Final Drive set up that would go into a Miata. Basically, the HF and the Miata mod had a much lower final, but a 1-3 gear set that was pretty close to original (or base CRX), but 4th 1:1 and 5th OD really gave some advantages. Are there multiple gear sets for the Saturn? IMHO, that was the biggest fuel economy gain- it compromised 4th and 5th performance to gain a ton of FE. Lean burn was just a little help.

Apparently the DOHC and SOHC had a different ratio for top gear. I am looking for answers to that, as well as many others. Unfortunately, that is not what is happening currently.

1. Buy a DOHC model.

2. Get the 5th gear from a MP2 (SOHC) transmission. It can be swapped to the DOHC trans w/o removing the trans from the car (remove outer case from wheel-well). Just Google "saturn 5th gear swap". The MP2 5th is quite a bit lower. Over 40 should be doable without much trouble.

3. Big rear bar, stiff springs, lowering, alignment and 15x7.5 wheels/ST tires (or 15x8 if you care not about classing). Intake, exhaust, SAFC if you care about classing, MS otherwise. ST* build should weigh in the 2300lb range and make ~135whp. No rocket, but plenty of fun on the street.

Downside is performance parts are hard to find new. Upside is the Saturn community is stupid poor and people unload their cars & mods for $dirt on a daily basis.

Fwiw, I probably had $2500 into this car:

I didn't do the 5th swap - it never spent much time on the highway, and as a result avg mpg was only around 30.

Its pretty much your only option for a light wagon/decent power that is less than 20 years old and not saturated with rust. You'll spend a lot of time searching for decent aftermarket parts though :(

In reply to ProDarwin:
And finally, the answers rain down like a monsoon.
I greatly approve of this build for a good compromise of fun and function. Utility with some spirit.