In reply to Tom Suddard :
That actually makes the new one mega attractive to me. We're rarely without power for more than a couple of days though it does happen a couple times a year. Being able to run a couple of circuits for a few days (Fridge, Freezer, Pellet Stove) at night and supplement with solar or a small wind installation during the day would really up the usefulness.
I just checked San Francisco Bay Area Craigslist. ... There are 16 Leafs under $10,000 right now, starting at $5,800.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/nissan-leaf-blue-fast-charger/6385464971.html
I rented one a couple of years ago and am not as enamored of it as many here, but with a 15 minute commute each way, it would make a lot more sense than my Ridgeline for commutes.
nderwater said:Tom Suddard said:So, electricity cost. It’s actually super easy to calculate. The national average electric rate is 12 cents per kilowatt-hour. I currently pay about that, but plan to switch to a time-of-use rate that will make my power cheaper at night, when I have the car set to do it’s charging...
A LEAF has a 24kwh pack (30kwh for 2016 or newer), and in that pack is about 21kwh of usable energy, because you can’t feasibly use every single bit of a battery. So, assuming I drive until my battery is dead every day with no public charging, and I pay the national average electric rate, I’m spending $2.52 to charge my leaf.
It's important to note that charging an EV isn't 100% efficient; charging efficiency varies some between cars and (importantly) between charging methods (110v trickle charging is least efficient). So you might be charged for 1.25 kWh worth of electricity usage to get 1 kWh of actual charge into your car.
True, but I was trying to keep things simple! Most estimates I've seen put EV charging efficiency between 85 and 90%.
One thing that Leaf is not great at is battery thermal management.
Most of the current EVs have active battery cooling and heating that help minimize battery degradation.
EVs with active thermal management, Volt, Bolt, Focus Electric, Teslas etc, are known to lose about 1% battery capacity a year while Leaf seems to lose 10-20%/year.
The harsher your climate is, the worse battery degradation would be.
I own a Ford Focus Electric since July.
Being a modified version of gas powered vehicle, it's got some quirks. For example, cargo space is smaller and the weight distribution is different. 49(front):51 which makes taking off on wet surface poor. Overall it still makes a good commuter.
Kreb said:I rented one a couple of years ago and am not as enamored of it as many here, but with a 15 minute commute each way, it would make a lot more sense than my Ridgeline for commutes.
Except I don't really get that thinking. I did the math when we were shopping cars for DW, who has a very short commute, tailor made for an electric car. In the 13 years we have owned her 2004 TSX, we have put something like 220 gallons of gas through it a year, and that's including using it fairly exclusively for the weekend driving in order to balance out the accumulated mileage with my car. If it was strictly used for her commute, that number would be something like 100 gallons a year.
The electric car would save on emmissions - maybe; that depends on who you ask and where you source electricity - but even that is minimial when you're burning that little fuel anyway. If you are commuting 10-30 miles in heavy stop-and-go traffic, I get it. But that's a specialized set of circumstances.
So at least for my purposes, electric cars make the most sense for trips where they don't make sense... which doesn't make much sense.
Woody said:In this case, my superiors are about 50,000 taxpayers. I'm sure a couple of them would have something to say about it.
If you're actually elected, then I'm sure it's an issue. :)
While my commute may be short, I still manage to need to fill the thing up every 1.5 weeks or so. At current gas rates, that's roughly $2,400/yr. So new, that isn't such a big deal, but used, the payback's decent on a Leaf.
I think that 10-20 percent battery degradation/yr. is bunk. Where'd that figure come from?
Yeah, the payback is weird on an electric. A short commute it doesn't really make sense, because you're burning so little gasoline anyway. And a long commute...the car may not make it. So, basically, the longest commute possible that's still comfortably within range of the car makes the most sense for getting one.
My understanding of the thermal management is that the lack thereof can adversely affect range by 10-20% or so at extreme hot or cold temperatures, but as for battery capacity, the general experience has been maybe 3 or 4 percent per year of lost capacity.
In reply to Kreb :
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss
Calendar loss for the first year was 6.5% for the city with "normal" temperature
Certainly 10-20% is some extreme cases but 6.5% is far worse than its competitors.
Yeah, that's for earlier batteries. Mine is an updated lizard chemistry (yes, that's the real term), and they seem to be holding up much better. Plus, I bought my car with a new battery in it specifically because I didn't want to worry about degradation for a while.
To further prevent degradation, I'm also a little weird about how I use my LEAF. I do most of my charging in an air-conditioned garage, and not right after the car has been driving, which prevents heat buildup. That's another reason I don't charge at work–no reason to leave the battery baking in the hot sun all day. I also only charge to 80% capacity every night, which Nissan says further prevents degradation. Overall, I think I'm going to be okay (hope so anyway).
As far as the DC fast charging goes, also not a huge deal according to what I've seen:
And as far as the money thing: it almost never makes sense to replace your car with any car to save money. Period. That's just basic math.
However, I wanted this thing not just because it saves me money (I was cross-shopping equivalently priced gas cars, and had no daily driver besides my van), but because I wanted an electric car just because, well, I wanted one. That was my main motivation.
Here is what my lizard battery's health looks like after about two years and 20,000 miles. I have run the battery dry a few times. This app "Leaf Spy Pro" is a much better fuel gage than the dashboard. Its also nice when shopping for Leafs.
edit: i'll have to figure out this image thing.
Time for another update!
Yeah, sorry internet, but I still love the thing. I've now put nearly 4500 miles on it, and every mile has been awesome. I'm totally comfortable with the range now, and don't have an issue taking longer trips as long as I plan the charging stops ahead.
I also assembled my own Level 2 home charger from a kit, so now I can charge up in a few hours in my home garage. Total cost to build and install? About $400 and a few hours of assembly time. I bought the J1772 cable on eBay to save money. And, while I had the panel cover off, I added a transfer switch so I can run my house off of a generator during storms, too. 
I also waxed the poor thing, as it hadn't had any since new. 
I totally want an electric car. I see one in my near future. Very much looking forward to it too!!
Please keep us updated Tom. Thanks.
I recently sold my Leaf because I moved further from my job. No sooner had I sold it than a new, better paying job popped up, you guessed it, 5 miles from home. I applied and started yesterday.
Dagnabbit. I console myself that a 10 mile commute at 25 mpg isn't all that much money.
Took the Leaf mountain biking yesterday, a 60-mile round trip with about 80% of that on the highway.
And we made it! Got home with 9 miles of range to spare, and I’d only started with about a 90% charge. Bikes definitely affect the range, but it’s not too bad. 
I know you didn't buy it for performance but how is it? I'm not expecting ludicrous mode but it's electric so does it have enough torque to make it fun at least?
Yes, definitely. Around town it feels pretty darn quick, on the highway it’s boring but that’s what I expected with only one gear.
Tom Suddard said:
Bikes definitely affect the range, but it’s not too bad.
time to call up SeaSucker for a demo unit?
I have a friend who has a Honda electric car. He loves it and is adventurist. He has taken several long trips. He checks ahead for charging stations. While it is charging he rides his bicycle and explores the area. He has driven to Montreal and has driven up the road at Mt. Washington. One year he entered the ice races. He brought a portable generator and plugged it in between heats ,also to make sure he can make it home, charging stations are pretty scarce in the Adirondacks.
Tom Suddard said:Took the Leaf mountain biking yesterday, a 60-mile round trip with about 80% of that on the highway.
And we made it! Got home with 9 miles of range to spare, and I’d only started with about a 90% charge. Bikes definitely affect the range, but it’s not too bad.
The bikes were a smart backup plan in case you ran out of juice on the way home!
Tom Suddard said:Time for another update!
Yeah, sorry internet, but I still love the thing. I've now put nearly 4500 miles on it, and every mile has been awesome. I'm totally comfortable with the range now, and don't have an issue taking longer trips as long as I plan the charging stops ahead.
I also assembled my own Level 2 home charger from a kit, so now I can charge up in a few hours in my home garage. Total cost to build and install? About $400 and a few hours of assembly time. I bought the J1772 cable on eBay to save money. And, while I had the panel cover off, I added a transfer switch so I can run my house off of a generator during storms, too.
How do you like the charger and where can I find some more information on it? I don't have an EV in the stable now, but I could see upgrading to a Gen2 Volt and it would be nice to charge at 240V. I've been watching for used Level 2 chargers on and off.
Totally awesome that you're pursuing this new line of automotive passion. I think electric cars are great and will only get more exciting. I drove a friend's Tesla Model S and it was stupid fun. Tires squealed.
I've done a lot of research on EV swaps and the new big thing is taking factory EV parts and converting gas vehicles. Super cool.
And have you looked in to how to make your Leaf FASTER?? It is GRM after all...
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