In reply to kb58 :
Just curious, did you invest in the old version of Aptera or give them money for a reservation?
In reply to kb58 :
Just curious, did you invest in the old version of Aptera or give them money for a reservation?
Is any automaker committed to making an electrified version of their hot hatches? I would plunk down some of my hard earned cash for a Veloster N or Golf GTI EV.
In reply to rodknock :
Go and try out a new Bolt. Like I said before, 200 hp and 266 lb ft of torque, delivered instantly with no waiting. It certainly feels as quick or quicker than a GTI (at least between 10 and 50 mph). And with a good set of tires (as pictured on the red on I posted) it'll be a fun handler as well, due to the low CG. It really is the EV version of a hot hatch.
In reply to Chris_V :
I was interested in the Bolt until I saw one in person and thought it was a C-Max with how tall it was. It can be fast and nimble but if you sit upright like a truck, I am uninterested.
Chris_V said:In reply to rodknock :
Go and try out a new Bolt. Like I said before, 200 hp and 266 lb ft of torque, delivered instantly with no waiting. It certainly feels as quick or quicker than a GTI (at least between 10 and 50 mph). And with a good set of tires (as pictured on the red on I posted) it'll be a fun handler as well, due to the low CG. It really is the EV version of a hot hatch.
There's a guy who runs one at track days around here. It's definitely not as fast as a GTI around Laguna Seca, not even close. :)
I have a Veloster Rspec and I've test driven a bolt. Powertrain wise they are a pretty good comparison.
The Bolt does not feel quite as quick as the Veloster peak speed, but the Bolt is always in the right gear and is really peppy and ultimately nets almost the same time through the 1/4 and to 60mph. The lack of drama is certainly different- no shifting, no getting pushed back in your seat as boost builds or RPM increases, etc. Its just a steady consistent push, always. Overall its an excellent match for something sporty on the street. The Veloster N would be a pretty big step up in power so wouldn't be very comparable. Its a solid 1.4 seconds faster in the 1/4
The big check mark against the Bolt being a "warm" hatch to me is that the seating position is so high. Its 5" taller than a GTI and 7.5" taller than a Veloster, with a narrow track width than both.
Chris_V said:In reply to rodknock :
Go and try out a new Bolt. Like I said before, 200 hp and 266 lb ft of torque, delivered instantly with no waiting. It certainly feels as quick or quicker than a GTI (at least between 10 and 50 mph). And with a good set of tires (as pictured on the red on I posted) it'll be a fun handler as well, due to the low CG. It really is the EV version of a hot hatch.
I'll have to give one a go. The only thing I am not a fan of is how tall the Bolt is. I would be more of a fan if it was proportioned more like the Cruze hatchback.
I really want my wife to consider a Bolt for her next car, but she can't get over its looks. I think they're fine - more interesting than the small SUVs that she usually buys, but it's gonna be her vehicle, so....
Have we talked about the Vanderhall Edison? Another electric three wheeler, a little more down to earth claims than the Aptera. I think it looks pretty cool. Also apparently on sale now.
I was at a TV shoot where they had a Vanderhall ICE. General opinion was that it was just kinda bad. Not fun bad.
If we're going to post pictures of sexy EV three wheelers, remember the Morgan EV3? Amazing piece of design. Will not be produced. But oh mama.
My wife was driving her little 6 year old nephew around and he asked what her car ran on. Upon being told batteries, he asked "so you don't have to go to the gas station? You just plug it in?". This was completely understandable to him, as he has grown up driving power wheels EVs. Electric cars are completely normal to him.
His parents are also a little dramatic, and refuelling their F150 and Denali is a fairly high effort process because they're trying to run them both on his gas card which only works near where he works and that's out of town and blah blah blah. To these kids, plugging a car in every night is SO much easier than having to put fuel in.
He also watched the most recent Starship test with me and completely accepted the fact that 1) rockets land on their tails and 2) you get high definition video of every moment of a rocket launch in real time from multiple views. Because that's all he's ever known.
Keith Tanner said:as he has grown up driving power wheels EVs.
I'm gonna be 40 this year and I too grew up driving power wheels.
red_stapler said:Keith Tanner said:as he has grown up driving power wheels EVs.
I'm gonna be 40 this year and I too grew up driving power wheels.
So if someone had told you at age 6 that their car ran on batteries, you'd find it totally normal. It's the 34 years in between that have colored your perception :)
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Interesting insight on the Vanderhall. What made you consider it bad? Where you able to drive it? I've read several reviews of both the ICE and electric versions and they are generally positive.
Previously I had dismissed the ICE versions due to the automatic transmission. With the electric it's not really an issue.
There is no doubt the design of the Morgan looks fantastic. But no matter how cool it looks it's not going to be built and the Vanderhall is on sale now. Back to the OP's point about electric vehicles being ugly, I wouldn't call the Vanderhall ugly. All three wheel vehicles will have some odd proportions. I think it looks pretty cool.
To be honest I've wanted a Morgan ever since they first were introduced. However in the intervening years the litany of issues plaguing the Morgan and its absurd cost have blunted my enthusiasm.
Keith Tanner said:red_stapler said:Keith Tanner said:as he has grown up driving power wheels EVs.
I'm gonna be 40 this year and I too grew up driving power wheels.
So if someone had told you at age 6 that their car ran on batteries, you'd find it totally normal. It's the 34 years in between that have colored your perception :)
This is pretty true of anything you tell a six year old, really.
I'm still trying to figure out the front suspension on the Morgan. It either has shock-style pin bushings at the steering uprights, or the smallest ball joints I've ever seen.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Chris_V :
I was interested in the Bolt until I saw one in person and thought it was a C-Max with how tall it was. It can be fast and nimble but if you sit upright like a truck, I am uninterested.
Older people like sitting up. Better visibility etc. easier access.
Since older people have a hard time climbing in and out of low cars like Corvettes, Mustangs etc. but they tend to buy new cars. ( and are a significant portion of the new car buying public), you will have to accept SUV, and higher vehicles as just a part of modern life.
mblommel said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
Interesting insight on the Vanderhall. What made you consider it bad? Where you able to drive it? I've read several reviews of both the ICE and electric versions and they are generally positive.
Previously I had dismissed the ICE versions due to the automatic transmission. With the electric it's not really an issue.
There is no doubt the design of the Morgan looks fantastic. But no matter how cool it looks it's not going to be built and the Vanderhall is on sale now. Back to the OP's point about electric vehicles being ugly, I wouldn't call the Vanderhall ugly. All three wheel vehicles will have some odd proportions. I think it looks pretty cool.
To be honest I've wanted a Morgan ever since they first were introduced. However in the intervening years the litany of issues plaguing the Morgan and its absurd cost have blunted my enthusiasm.
I didn't drive the Vandehall, it wasn't there for me. This was based on casual conversations with people who drive for a living. I was there for other reasons so I didn't press for full details. I can say they all wanted to like it but just couldn't.
EVs don't have to look ugly, but they also don't have to look like ICE vehicles and they're developing their own styling language as a result. We have to get over a lifetime of what cars "should" look like.
It occurs to me that the dubious blank faced styling on many EVs is not unprecedented. VWs and Renaults aside, Kaiser Darrin did it in 1954:
And many rear engined cars put something up front to break up the monotony:
Renault 4CV
Perhaps there is an after market grille potential here. If someone could produce a 58 De Soto grille that fit a Muskmobile, perhaps in chromed plastic.....
There might be a whole new industry here - dress up your Tesla. Watch for the next J.C. Whitney catalogue!
I am surprised that there isn't a market in front end jewelry for the Model 3.
I see a LOT of Teslas everyday, and I no longer miss the grill. Apparently I’m used to the blankness.
I don’t mind the looks of the Bolt, and I wanna drive one. It’s seems like some suspension tweaks could make it fun.
I think I heard something about a GTE Golf. Maybe that’s the ticket. I remember someone saying the eGolf is pretty close to a hot hatch.
Just saw this in the wild. In person it's a very good looking car.
It was near exotic level wide. Not sure if those wheels are stock, but it looked pretty great.
frenchyd said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Chris_V :
I was interested in the Bolt until I saw one in person and thought it was a C-Max with how tall it was. It can be fast and nimble but if you sit upright like a truck, I am uninterested.
Older people like sitting up. Better visibility etc. easier access.
Since older people have a hard time climbing in and out of low cars like Corvettes, Mustangs etc. but they tend to buy new cars. ( and are a significant portion of the new car buying public), you will have to accept SUV, and higher vehicles as just a part of modern life.
Well, the thing is, young people want SUVs. I can't tell you how many times I had some high schooler's hand me down car that they wanted us to find a ton wrong with it because they wanted their parents to buy them an Escape or similar. And it seems like the main demographic for the Jeep Compass is teenage girls.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:frenchyd said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Chris_V :
I was interested in the Bolt until I saw one in person and thought it was a C-Max with how tall it was. It can be fast and nimble but if you sit upright like a truck, I am uninterested.
Older people like sitting up. Better visibility etc. easier access.
Since older people have a hard time climbing in and out of low cars like Corvettes, Mustangs etc. but they tend to buy new cars. ( and are a significant portion of the new car buying public), you will have to accept SUV, and higher vehicles as just a part of modern life.Well, the thing is, young people want SUVs. I can't tell you how many times I had some high schooler's hand me down car that they wanted us to find a ton wrong with it because they wanted their parents to buy them an Escape or similar. And it seems like the main demographic for the Jeep Compass is teenage girls.
Young people may want CUVs, but old people are the ones with the funds to actually buy them new.
Automakers don't care what people want as much as they care about what people are willing and able to spend money on. And of course they're going to do what they can to maximize profitability of a given vehicle and/or for the corporation as a whole.
In reply to STM317 :
... and the current attitude of the buying public is going towards believing things like AWD being "necessary safety equipment", and the weird reverse feedback loop of "I'm scared of big cars on the road -> I need a big car -> my big vehicle makes me feel safer -> my car isn't big enough anymore". I swear I read somewhere that truck sizes are now limited by parking lot space and that's why they're going "up" like they are.
Someone mentioned the Aptera's range being inconsistent- it's actually because Aptera is still trying to find a heat pump supplier so they aren't using a resistive heating element.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
Here in the North AWD is very important. Between ICE and Snow traction is severely limited.
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