I couldn't believe my ears, driving aids not invasive enough.

A 401 CJ said:

Everyone in a driverless car.  Funny.  Almost without exception, when everyone thinks something is an inevitable forgone conclusion it doesn’t happen.  We were to be buzzing around in flying cars by 1960.  The concepts for such were proven workable in the 1930’s.  Cars were built that flew.  Well a handful anyway.  

The issue with your theory here is that flying cars require A) airworthiness, and B) pilots.

The inherent compromises involved in designing a flying car limit its capabilities in both formats.

But, far more importantly, your average driver can barely manage 2 dimensions.  Throw 3-dimensional driving into the mix and you will far exceed the processing power of your average meat computer.  That's the real reason we're not all flying to work in our Jetsonmobile.

I agree, in 30(?) years, the vast majority of vehicles will be self-driven.  But I disagree that they will primarily be a taxi service rather than an ownership or lease experience.

Curtis said:

My former boss had a Nissan Murano with that automatic cruise control that slowed down when traffic ahead of you was slowing down, but it left like 10 car lengths.  Then you went around a turn and it "lost" the car ahead of you and sped up through the turn, then rediscovered the car ahead after the turn and hit the brakes. 

That's one of the reasons we declined to buy the TLX when we test drove it.  It did exactly that.

The S60 seems much less susceptible to that, somehow.  Also, at least on the Volvo, you easily adjust the following distance via the steering wheel controls.

I like the adaptive cruise, a lot actually - FAR less infuriating than regular cruise is when there is more than 1 other car in sight.  You do really still have to pay attention, though.  The car will smoothly hold station behind the vehicle in front of you, so smoothly that you won't notice you're going 10mph less than you meant to be.  So instead of managing the throttle, you need to manage lane choice in order not to dumbly poke along following whoever's setting the pace.  That's not a complaint, just a tactical point requiring attention.

I like some things as preventative.  Emergency obstacle braking when a kid runs out in front of you?  Great.  Steering wheels that yank you back into your lane when you're trying to make a legit lane change?  berkeleying dangerous.

Preventative stuff can save lives and its great, but when a car starts making choices for you, it's a little too Asimov for me.

In every car I've ever driven, lane departure is automatically suspended if you have the turn signal on in that direction... so, just be a good boy and that shouldn't happen.

Where I end up turning it off is on back roads like those found in PA, with a significant crown and somewhat narrow lanes.  Shaving your apexes or trying to stay on the flatter part of the crown makes the car grumpy.

Duke said:

Curtis said:

My former boss had a Nissan Murano with that automatic cruise control that slowed down when traffic ahead of you was slowing down, but it left like 10 car lengths.  Then you went around a turn and it "lost" the car ahead of you and sped up through the turn, then rediscovered the car ahead after the turn and hit the brakes. 

That's one of the reasons we declined to buy the TLX when we test drove it.  It did exactly that.

The S60 seems much less susceptible to that, somehow.  Also, at least on the Volvo, you easily adjust the following distance via the steering wheel controls.

I like the adaptive cruise, a lot actually - FAR less infuriating than regular cruise is when there is more than 1 other car in sight.  You do really still have to pay attention, though.  The car will smoothly hold station behind the vehicle in front of you, so smoothly that you won't notice you're going 10mph less than you meant to be.  So instead of managing the throttle, you need to manage lane choice in order not to dumbly poke along following whoever's setting the pace.  That's not a complaint, just a tactical point requiring attention.

I like some things as preventative.  Emergency obstacle braking when a kid runs out in front of you?  Great.  Steering wheels that yank you back into your lane when you're trying to make a legit lane change?  berkeleying dangerous.

Preventative stuff can save lives and its great, but when a car starts making choices for you, it's a little too Asimov for me.

In every car I've ever driven, lane departure is automatically suspended if you have the turn signal on in that direction... so, just be a good boy and that shouldn't happen.

Where I end up turning it off is on back roads like those found in PA, with a significant crown and somewhat narrow lanes.  Shaving your apexes or trying to stay on the flatter part of the crown makes the car grumpy.

You guys must have tiny T-Rex arms (joking)? I've driven 3 manufacturersm versions of LDA, and I wouldn't describe any of them as "yanking" the wheel. Annoying? Sure. Dangerous? If you're not holding onto the wheel.

The Volvo doesn't "yank" unless it thinks you're really headed for trouble.  Normally it just nudges - but that gets annoying after the 4th or 5th time in a mile of somewhat twisty road.

It's not that it is particularly trying to seize control; it's more that subcociously my hands process it as "You're running over something" and unless I catch myself, I will automatically twitch the wheel to avoid it, even when the car is exactly on my intended line.

So on anything other than smooth, relatively wide roads, it's easier to just tap it out than it is to deal with it.

There are way too many decent cars without this crap on them I'd rather own. 

In reply to bobzilla :

That's one of the reasons I liked the new Veloster R---- it didn't suffer from gadgetry creep.  It was just a fun car that did car things.  

My new GTI has all the nannies (my WRX did not have many), and initially they annoyed me greatly:

1. rear-view camera. well, I always said "why the hell do I need that?" After a month with it, wow it's nice backing out of a parking spot at home depot and knowing no bro-truck is coming down the lane too fast to stop. That goes for the back-up assist warning as well. I did start  backin out the other day and some moron walked right behind my car and the assist beep made me stop before I hit her. 

2. blind-spot warning: still annoys me a bit, but the GTI actually has a pretty big blind spot and small side mirrors so it's getting less annoying.

3. front/braking assist. I turned off the warnings, though not the system. But in the snow today I got the warning light saying the sensor couldn't measure distance (probably packed up with ice), which I don't care much about but the warning light would not go off for my whole commute, so THAT was annoying. 

ABS, airbags, disc brakes....all good things

The GTI traction control and staiblity control can be turned off, but it's not very intrusive at all (the VSC and ABS on my Sequoia are SUPER-intrusive/sensitive)

accordionfolder said:

In reply to Appleseed :

Well, statistically, they're more likely to at least.

"According to the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), you are 37 times more likely to die in a motorcycle accident than a car accident"

 

Motorcycles are, as aircraft are, not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree than the sea, they are terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity,  or neglect. 

M2Pilot said:

In reply to Appleseed :

If you drive your motorcycle like some folks do, that shouldn't be too far in the future.  Good luck, Stay safe.  

You “rode” right into that one Appleseed.

SVreX said:

How's that horse drawn buggy working for you?

I should ask the amish near me how much a gallon of grass costs compared to gasoline.

Careful. Hayburners make airplanes look cheap.

My brother in laws parents own a horse farm. Friesians no less.

I'm well aware that horse people make us look sensible.

Horses, airplanes, and boats are all pretty darn high on the "buying it is the cheapest thing you'll ever do with it" scale. 

As far as driver aids go, I'm fine with ones that are well enough tuned to be truly helpful.  Unfortunately, a lot aren't.  Like the (now deleted) Jeep ABS which would be way too quick to engage, leading to it chopping a bunch of braking power every time you hit a bump while braking in the rain and not letting snow tires get enough slip to reach maximum braking (I did an ABS on/off stopping distance test with snow on the ground and snow tires and I was shocked when I realized how much more stopping power there was in between the ABS engagement threshold and tire lockup). 

And some of the aids are only there to make up for other design deficiencies in the car (like blind spot monitors which could be fixed with different mirrors that gave less of a blind spot).  My personal favorite of the new features is adaptive cruise, as it's adding something useful and not trying to make up for drivers that don't pay attention. 

One bit of modern tech I'm ashamed I do like- the hill assist on the clutch in my new Mazda 3.  As I tell Mrs. VCH, it takes the most annoying/ difficult part of driving a stick shift car (starting while facing up hill) and completely solves it.  I've been driving stick shift cars for 20 years, consider myself proficient at it, but dang if that isn't still a handy feature.  

Luckily, the Mazda doesn't do anything in terms of yanking the wheel or beeping at me.  It has a back up camera, but it doesn't beep at me as things get closer.  The ABS and traction control work fine.  

Appleseed said:

Careful. Hayburners make airplanes look cheap.

Yeah...I've heard that the most expensive transportation devices make exactly one horsepower.

I too am put off by all the electronic “aides”.  I rolled my eyes when i first heard about “adaptive cruise control”.  Then one day after an arduous trip home from Russia I found myself stuck in the Atlanta airport due to a power outage.  I live approx 410 miles from there.  Being bone tired I rented an ‘18 Maxima and set that thing on a course north.  I’ve got to say that its adaptive cruise was one of the best features I’ve ever used.  Totally relaxing drive not having to speed up and slow down all the time.  Just slide behind the truck in front and wait for the line of fast traffic to pass.  Then steer around when ready and go.

How long until the future is "Sorry, HAD your vehicle been equipped with (insert-car-nanny-here), this accident would have been no where near as bad.  We're not going to cover your out-dated technology"?

Even if I am 100% not at fault.

Life was so much better with threat of polio... 

In reply to SkinnyG :

As soon as insurance companies can buy the legeslation to make it profitable.

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Life was so much better with threat of nuclear Armageddon...