I didn't know what I was missing...

I'm not really in the market right now to purchase a used car, but a couple of weeks ago, I finally test drove a couple of fairly new sports cars/coupes. I also test drove a couple more a couple of days ago.

First off, I will start with the 08 Mustang GT. Since I was a kid reading Car and Driver and other car magazines, I had always liked the styling of the Camaro, both the current and old school cars more than the Mustang. I also generally liked the styling of the old school Chevy cars more than the Ford offerings. Since our car culture holds the my brand is better than yours childish mentality, I never really wanted to really consider a Mustang, even though autocross practically eliminated that in-group out-group bias I had with cars. I never drove one, so I didn't really know what to expect except that the live rear axle should show itself on bumps. Luckily, the car had a manual trans, so I could evaluate the clutch and shifter. I fired it up, and the wonderful sound of a loud, rumbling V8 filled my ears. As I pulled out of the used car lot, I noticed that it had a firm clutch pedal, very firm, to be exact. It had the heaviest factory (I'm guessing) clutch pedal out of any car I've driven before. I lift weights, so it wasn't a fatigue issue for me, but smaller, weaker men and women would likely have some fatigue issues with it, especially in city driving. I liked the clutch feel, and quickly got used to it. The ride was ok, but it is apparent that the live axle is there, and outdated for street use. Another shocking revelation was that the steering was heavy, which I really enjoy, and that particular car would change direction fairly quickly, which is a great benefit, especially with carving corners and dodging cones. I'm surprised to say it, but it is a good driver's car. The tires were mismatched, I checked them later, but the front tires are Pirelli P Zero all seasons. A big plus for this generation Mustang is that it has factory 17" wheels, perfect for auto-x and possible future track days. What really holds this generation Mustang GT back is the interior, it's so cheap and odd shaped, in my opinion, that some potential owners, especially ones that look for a nice interior, will look elsewhere. It was also falling apart, which is concerning since it's only 7 years old. It was the worst of the cars I've test drove so far, but much better than I thought, and only slightly worse than the next car I drove.

The next car up is the 11 Camaro RS. I actually test drove this car first. It was as I expected, flawed, but good. The steering is average, definitely not the sporting feel that I want, along with the clutch pedal. This model had just over 80K miles, and that could be why the steering and clutch didn't feel as good as the Mustang GT with around half the miles. The visibility of the Camaro was the worst of all the cars I test drove, which was expected. The steering wheel was also an odd shape since the spokes slant toward the column instead of to the middle of the wheel, and didn't feel quite right. What makes this car shine is the seat;The power seat was the most comfortable out of all the cars I test drove and fit my body the best, which is huge. I do like the styling much more than the Mustang, but it's not as important if I was going to purchase a vehicle. Also, the independent rear suspension gave the car the best ride out of all the cars I drove, which is nice. The interior is much better than the Mustang's, and is the primary reason that it comes in 3rd in my ranking so far. However, as a pure auto-x and track car, right now I would purchase that Mustang GT over the Camaro RS.

The 2nd best car I test drove recently is a 13 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-spec. The interior is better than the Camaro, and the seats are nice. They looked better than the Camaro's seats, and the leather and textured cloth is a cool design. They are nicely bolstered, ready to hold you in place. They were probably the third best seats for my body shape out of all the cars I had ever driven, and are manually operated, which us driving enthusiasts enjoy. (2nd best for me so far) Outward visibility is much better in this than the Camaro, and along with the better interior, knocked the Camaro down a spot on my list immediately. I didn't really test the brakes very much, especially with salesmen/saleswomen riding along, but they did feel the best out of the group with Brembo calipers front and back. It is also physically smaller than the Camaro, which makes driving it easier, along with easier parking. The clutch pedal didn't give me any feedback, which is a negative. I actually stalled it several times because I couldn't adjust to how it grabs, and it engages a little too abruptly when letting it out while driving. I was constantly feeling it lurch when just trying to drive it normally. What also surprised me, and led me to title this thread how it is because of the steering. Matt Farah from The Smoking Tire and /Drive has mentioned that the steering of new cars is more responsive than from the 90s, and it couldn't have been more apparent. I love the steering response of the Genesis Coupe, slight turns of the steering wheel, and the car changes direction immediately, no hesitation, no waiting to get loaded up, just get up and go. It feels like a sports car, engineered to be fun to drive. The rear seat leg room is small, of course, but it is useable for me if I had the financial means to buy it. I think that it's also a little bigger than the Camaro rear seat space while being smaller, which seems ironic.

The last car, and clearly the best car of the bunch, is the 15 BRZ. We've all read about how the car was jointly engineered to be a proper driver's car, and the only car in it's class, etc. I had ridden in it at an autocross, but I needed to drive it to feel just how much I like it. I did test drive it right after the Genesis Coupe so I would have a great reference point. Unfortunately, it was an auto, so I couldn't evaluate the manual shifter and clutch. It has good outward visibility, marking the Camaro quite badly (since that's a safety feature, too). Immediately, you can feel that the car is much lighter and lower to the ground than the Genesis Coupe. I was expecting the interior to be a little disappointing like the Camaro, or something close, either way. Not true, at least with the '15. It's a nice place to be, on par with the Genesis Coupe, IMO. The seats are nicely bolstered, ideal for corner carving and cone dodging. They are narrower than the Genesis Coupe seats, which is expected, yet a little less comfortable to me due to the slightly firmer bottom cushion. They are 3rd best for my body in this test, but noticeably, if not much better than the Mustang GT seats. There are a few flaws to the BRZ for me. The back seats seem to be there for insurance purposes. I have a 7 year old daughter, and she would have trouble fitting back there, especially if there were to be an adult sitting in the front. The steering was fast, just like the Genesis. But the chassis, the highlight of the car, is stiff, very easily apparent with just how fast the car responds to your every input. The brakes are good, aided by the lightweight chassis. With my driving style to be somewhat conservative with applying throttle, especially with watchful eyes next to me, putting around a short loop around town didn't reveal any flaws with the low power output of the BRZ at all. In fact, probably due to the heavy E36 flywheel, it's faster than my car. In auto mode, the auto trans shifted smoothly, like expected. In manual mode, it would hold the revs for the few seconds that I forgot to shift, very well programmed for fast back road runs and crushing an occasional cone. I did have a couple of good corners I was able to take with the Genesis Coupe and the BRZ. The Genesis coupe felt really good around them (couldn't push it too much). However, the BRZ was just on another level. It didn't just feel better than the Genesis coupe, but it felt effortless, like I need to kick the salesman out and just start hauling ass around some of these roads like it's my personal race track. In short, the car is special (and the best car I have ever driven). All these good and great traits of the car add up to be even greater whole, just the perfect match of man and machine, making wonderful music of tire squealing and joyful laughter.

I was just curious about how good the new sports cars/coupes are, and I was pleasantly surprised. I have driven many sports cars/coupes, ironically because of the unreliability of my E36. Overall, it has been a huge benefit, so I can feel in person how each individual iteration of a NA Miata, etc. drives, since different tires or different spring rates will make a sports car feel much different from the same chassis. I thought that it could be very likely that I would permanently own my E36, but the responsive steering of the Genesis Coupe and BRZ makes that unlikely since it's not easily replicated. I will also note that the steering feedback is better with my E36 than these four cars I test drove, and it's faulty, and not as good as a properly working one. I will also test drive a NC Miata, since I haven't driven one yet. I don't think that it can be better than the BRZ, but I need to test drive it to know for sure. Also, let me know which cars I should test drive to evaluate against the BRZ. So far, the only cars that I might like better are the C6 and C7 Corvettes, and the later 911s and Caymans (excluding the exotics).

Edit: Oh, and the FR-S/BRZ don't sound good in stock form due to the boxer 4 engine and exhaust note.

I gave the wrong answer about my price range at the Mazda dealership, and they wouldn't let me test drive a NC Miata, since they only had brand new ones. However, I did get to test drive the '08 RX-8. The car was better than I thought. The steering was of the very responsive electric type. It did feel like the first generation of the electric steering, because it felt a little more numb than the other cars did. The back seat is tight, but it does have a little more space than the BRZ/FR-S. The interior is cheap; the plastics were a little disappointing, especially for a daily driver. The seats were leather, and didn't fit my body all that great. They also didn't have that soft, supple feel. I would probably swap them out if I did end up buying one. It had Goodyear summer tires on it; I forgot the specific model so I will add that later. The car was a 40th anniversary edition, and it rode well, better than the Genesis Coupe or the BRZ. It was raining, and the tires felt good wet, yet it wasn't raining enough to know if the tires can handle steady rain in a composed manner. The shifter is excellent, with better feel than the Genesis shifter, along with better placement. I didn't floor it, but the salesman did a little when we first drove off the lot, and I didn't feel like it was lacking in torque, but I have only owned slow cars. Just putting around town, it felt good, faster than my car. The highlight of this car is the stiff chassis; it's almost as stiff as the BRZ and almost as responsive. It handles corners beautifully, aided by it's small, light chassis. It is a bona-fied sports car, hard edged and focused on hauling ass around corners. It felt like the mid-00s version of the FR-S/BRZ, a lightweight, low powered driver's car for the masses. It also has more flaws, especially with the early Renesis rotaries blowing up at low miles and low gas mileage. Right now, I would rank the 1st gen RX-8 as 3rd behind the Genesis coupe because of the huge flaws with the engine.

oh boy, here comes the 'pony car', 'GT', you're not comparing sports cars because 3 of them weigh over 3000 lbs...

I liked your writeup btw...and yes...Corvette, Cayman or Boxster, M3?

It's funny how the 20+ year old E36 you have now has the best steering feel of any of them, right?

BMW had the "something" quality to the whole front end of the machine that was unmatched anywhere right up thru the recent 128. I drove a new F 3 series when the mrs was shopping thinking I'd want to talk her into it... but the magic is gone.

I love the BR-Z. I expect to love the mew MX-5. I probably love the used Boxster/Cayman more. I'm almost to the point where I don't need back seats anymore... soon. SOON.

Yeah, I've been reading about how the new electric steering racks kill the steering feel of the new sports cars/coupes, but I didn't know quite what they were talking about until a couple of days ago. BMW engineers the steering racks to feel like that, because it feels much better than plenty of other 90s performance cars. I also did call them sport coupes, since that's what the American cars are. I also have autocrossed an E46 M3 a couple of years ago, and oddly, it felt like a slightly bigger, waayyy faster version of my car. It felt much more like my car than I expected.

I did get to test drive a '10 Camaro SS, for some fun and comparison's sake. I didn't get a good test drive with the American cars earlier. Yet, this car was an auto, nothing to write home about. I didn't notice the weight difference between the cars (mostly from the poor test drive with the earlier ones), but this one had Cooper summer tires, and the car did handle corners pretty good. Getting into this car compared to the sports cars, it's a huge, cavernous, boat of a car. It gives the impression of the old school full sized sedans that the older men modify to be a Pro-Touring car. The car has a ton of torque, with 400 lb/ft of wonderful V8 thrust, but I did realize that I don't accelerate aggressively enough in daily driving to justify the extra money, weight, and fuel useage. GM did a good job in making a fat lady dance, but in the end, it's still a fat lady.

I still need to hunt down a NC Miata and a C5 Corvette.

I'd own a Toyobaru if I could afford a new car. I expect the ND will perform a bit better but it's not as practical, and I don't like the looks so much.

GameboyRMH wrote: I'd own a Toyobaru if I could afford a new car. I expect the ND will perform a bit better but it's not as practical, and I don't like the looks so much.

If they would only offer a coupe version of the Miata I would have one on my driveway.

In reply to t25torx: The closest you can get to that is a RX-8 with an engine swap, IMO (that's branded Mazda, anyway).

I got denied on walk-in test drives for the local C5, a C4, a new WRX, and a 2010 STi that's an hour drive away. I get it about the new WRX, they don't want all the young guys like me test driving them and putting a ton of miles on them, but the rest are not exactly precious stones to be carefully guarded. I'll likely need to hit craigslist to test drive these.

Anyway, I did test drive a privately owned NC Miata. It was an 06 with 63K miles. I have read on this board that it is damped too softly, yet it was firmly sprung and damped, just like a proper sports car should. I could also feel that the chassis is stiff, somewhat surprising despite the reviews. Driving on a short, curvy road, the wind buffeting wasn't there at all, even with the small windscreen down. The engine and steering was very responsive, to my surprise. I couldn't tell if the steering rack was a hydraulic unit with no feel to it, or an electric unit with a little feel programmed into it, an odd middle ground. It did feel better than the RX-8 electric unit. It handled excellent, and the low weight of the chassis brought on a great go-cart feel that none of the other cars could simply match, not even by the great FR-S/BRZ twins. The ride was firm like the other sports cars I tested, but a little more immediate due to the short wheelbase of the car. The car was in great condition, it would be hard to complain about any cosmetic flaws it had. The interior is cheap, which wasn't that big of a surprise. The seats aren't that good, they weren't bolstered enough or comfortable enough, but they are cloth. Now that I think about it, the shocks are likely underdamped, but I couldn't tell. In all, it's much better than I thought; It's almost as razor sharp a driving experience as the RX-8, but less flawed, which leads me to place it 2nd on my list.

This thread needs some pictures.

I also test drove an 04 G35 Coupe with 137K. It's not one of the newer sports cars, so I'll compare it more to my current 328i. I didn't get to test drive a 350Z on the road, but I did autocross a poorly setup one a couple of years ago. This car was a surprise, too. The clutch pedal on this car was probably double the firmness of the 08 Mustang GT I test drove. It was ridiculous, kind of like the previous owner put in a racing pressure plate or something! That used car dealership happened to have two G35s, and I should have sat in the other one to see if the clutch pedal had the overly high stiffness. I also didn't like how the clutch pedal traveled, it moved more on a swinging pivot motion than any other clutch, making it difficult to completely depress. Oddly, it didn't give any feedback when letting it out, a huge letdown. The VQ35 engine has much more power than my car, which was really nice. The noise that it makes when getting on it is pretty bad, especially for a V6, it requires a good muffler or two to cover it up. It also doesn't have a stupid clutch delay valve in it like mine, so the shifts are all smooth, no unnecessary clunking and bucking. It also has a stiffer chassis than my car, a big plus. The back seats are adequate, big enough for my kid to sit back there for a few years. Also probably big enough for 4 average sized adults to fit, if needed. The interior is cheap for an Infiniti, IMO, but better than the Miata and RX-8. The seats were bad, they had good bolstering, but they were much too stiff to be really comfortable. The steering was not that good since it's a hydraulic unit, but it was responsive. The car handled and rode very well, but I did forget to see what tires it has. With factory Brembo brakes, it didn't seem to have a lot of stopping power, but that could also have been from possible all-season tires on it. It's reliable, so that's a huge advantage over my car. I also love the exterior styling and the wheels, they're gorgeous. It's a good sports coupe, but based on prices around $8900 for G35s with similar mileage, is definitely not worth buying it to replace my 328i. My car would be superior with an elimination of the clutch delay valve and racing springs. I would also throw in a LSD for good measure.

I also need to add the Focus and Fiesta ST to the list.

I sat in the '11 Camaro and the '11 Genesis Coupe the other day. GM definitely changed the size and shape of the dash in the '11 Camaro vs. the '10, especially the passenger side. It is sized correctly so it doesn't feel like a huge cavern inside. Also, the plastics are slightly improved, but not by much. The '11 Genesis Coupe interior is cheap, the same quality as the '11 Camaro, but with a better design, IMO. Also, it had leather seats, which I didn't like that much. The interior is a huge upgrade in the facelifted Genesis Coupe, and I would go with that one.

I'll say this: when you've come from driving worn out boats, and pickup trucks for 20 years, the FR-S/BRZ with feel like a scalpel.

I made the mistake of driving an AP2 S2000 and a 06 NC with cheap tires back to back. It really made me second guess the miata.

I need to try one again. Maybe one of the later ones. It checks most of the right boxes for me and I need another convertible in my life.