Frenchyd, I understand about finances. This may be where fixing up the XJS,flipping it for a handsome profit. See what you have to start with $ wise. Ask the gentleman what's what, with the Miatas. A good starting point for your finances. I remember my grammar school teacher once said, "The dumbest question, is the one you don't ask"
In reply to Dirtydog :
Entry level with a JaguarXJS is the $500 I’ve already spent. It will likely take about $2500or so to get it into raceable condition with 500+ horsepower and I’ve already got the parts and spares I need.
Against that it would cost $5000+ to buy and learn enough to have fun racing a Miata.
Down side of the Jaguar? There is no group or club to go wheel to wheel with. It’s too new to vintage race, too old to race SCCA . Oh I’m sure some Trans Am tribute cars would be fun to drive with. But I wonder how many events I’d have to enter to find them?
The Miata on the other hand has countless clubs, groups, and opportunities. With work and money could probably be as fast or faster. Just not in the same brutal way. If you stuffed a big V8 in a Miata I’m sure it would replicate some of the same brutal nature but then where could you race it?
It seems like you're talking yourself into a Miata. Dolled up, what's the Jag worth on the market? You may have the $ needed for a build, going towards a Miata. V8's are a pretty common swap in these things. How about a Jag engine in one?
NOHOME said:Put on your GRM T-shirt and go talk to the man. The special word is "Challenge" and it should come up in conversation. Even if you dont get the car right then you will have found out what he is thinking and planted a seed.
In my mind that car you describe is worth no more than 1000 and probably net out better if sold for parts.
Pete
Like I said, this isn’t the direction I wanted to go, but I’m a realist. There are really no venues to go wheel to wheel with an XJS too new for Vintage, too old for SCCA
Well as Yogi Berra once said, "When you come to the fork in the road, take it"
In reply to Dirtydog :
a Jag V12 in a Miata has been done. Some guy in Australia did it.
As far as selling the XJS well I suppose real world I’d wind up around $3500 or so. But that’s shined running nice and leather treated etc. wouldn’t cost that much since I have everything. Probably fastest way would be to pull the original engine and replace it with one of my good spares. The original has been partially pulled apart to upgrade.
Just a thought. Run the numbers around, and see what you got. A Jagata, may be quite the build.
In reply to Dirtydog :
Not sure the “club” would go along. Heck they were pretty set on the Jag until I pointed out the handicap of fuel mileage.
I asked GRM about track day with SCCA but apparently no one here has done that. The Ferrari club in Minnesota has a weekend or two up at Brainerd but it’s not wheel to wheel.
There is a group that runs events at Blackhawk and Elkhart Lake sorta Vintage but I suspect I’d be allowed. Maybe. But I don’t know who I could play with.
Keep in mind that the Miata is cheap in part because it's slow. That doesn't appeal to everyone.
I personally feel that it's better to race a car that you like. You're going to be spending a LOT of time wrenching and thinking about and sitting in this car.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Keep in mind that the Miata is cheap in part because it's slow. That doesn't appeal to everyone.
I personally feel that it's better to race a car that you like. You're going to be spending a LOT of time wrenching and thinking about and sitting in this car.
Yeh, I’m the gear head of the group and I know most of the real work will be done by me. In my shop at my expense.
Part of my reluctance is due to the experience of getting guys to actually do what they say they want to do.
How many claim they’d love to do endurance racing right up to the point of putting their money down? If I build it for endurance racing maybe I shouldn’t have all the serious stuff in it like dog ring gear boxes?
That’s another case for a nice generic Miata. Small and slow is the way to go?
I suggest you start off by seeing if you & any potential drivers in the club fit in a caged Miata. If you're over 6' it can make for uncomfortable ingress/egress for the "flexibility challenged" among the group.
They're great cars on short technical tracks, not quite as much fun on horsepower tracks without some help. That help (boost or swap) will need development time to make it reliable in race conditions.
I'd suggest that neither choice is great. The Jag is too much, too heavy, too thirsty. You'll forever be buying gas, tires, brakes, and suspension pieces for it. Even before the auto trans gets smoked because endurance racing an old car will find it's weak spots.
The Miata might not be enough. Literally the opposite in every way.
So have you thought about something else? If you can tolerate FWD, there are options there as well for 150-250 hp in a hatchback will move you around the track in a hurry without being the deathstar of the Jag or the rolling chicane of the Miata. Probe GT, 200SX, GTI, MX-6 all come to mind as potential track rats without too much effort.
In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :
I’ve raced Jaguars almost my whole racing career, since 1970. I hope this doesn’t come across too harsh, if so I apologize. Nothing you’ve said about them is true, Well except gas, as for gas It will be set up for E85 because it’s so cheap! Cheap and powerful. Right now 87 octane gas sells between $2.63 & $2.59 E85 sells for $1.74 and has an octane rating of over100
tires will be NASCAR take offs under $100 each and seem to last a full season.
Brakes? Well Wilwood pads last a long times e even on a 2700 pound car. Especially when a weekend of racing is less than 100 laps
suspension? Have you even seen Jaguar suspension? Clearly not. Robust doesn’t begin to describe it. Any weak link is so well known and so easy to deal with.
As for the transmission that will be a dog ring Saenz 5 speed non-overdrive quick change ( the gears slide in and out the back in minutes) with different sets of ratios to gear the car properly for every corner. Think NASCAR with 5 speeds instead of 4
but even if it were the original GM Turbo 400 Jaguar usesthe heavy duty ones out of tow trucks and ambulances that hold up very well in racing applications if the cooler used is big enough. Not the one out of the cars.
The Miata would be new to me. New learning curve, new parts, new technology. It’s only advantage is there is a lot of places to race them. Plenty of people to race with. While it’s true they don’t seem to respect each other’s body work as much as Vintage racers do. At least those fenders etc are cheap to replace.
I understand from what I’ve read you are right about performance. Little motors that while reliable are not thrilling.
As for front wheel drive? Maybe you haven’t been following racing trends. A company called Audi developed something called all wheel drive and pretty much made front wheel drive obsolete. Like Indy cars of the 50’s front wheel drive has come and gone.
Dashpot said:I suggest you start off by seeing if you & any potential drivers in the club fit in a caged Miata. If you're over 6' it can make for uncomfortable ingress/egress for the "flexibility challenged" among the group.
They're great cars on short technical tracks, not quite as much fun on horsepower tracks without some help. That help (boost or swap) will need development time to make it reliable in race conditions.
you are right about flexibility challenged. What a kind expression for stiff old men. Thank you!
Two are 6 foot plus and both of them are plus 300 pounds. In fact all but one of us is at least 250 pounds. To be fair passing a medical will be a challenge for a lot of us, I’m OK because I have a medical already for my commercial license. Something I have to do every two years.
The more I look into the Miata the less I think it’s a solution for us. Phone conversations back and forth seem to agree with that assessment.
A few of us raced Big thunder boomers so a Jaguar shouldn’t prove too difficult to enjoy. The two who want a Miata type solution have only driven small bore classes. However They are also the least likely to actually show up to race.
Now The guys have some interest in a Camero or Mustang. But something like that would be way over any budget.
Well then. I can attest to flexibility challenged. Maybe it's time to review what you already have. There is a guy on here who has offered a Jag for a reasonable price as far as I can tell. You already have a high percentage of what you would need to get a race car going. It's possible to make a profit on a XJS flip. Plus the other vehicle may have the needed parts to finish the Sell car. I'm following this vicariously. I hope that it can happen.
In reply to Dirtydog :
That seems like the best approach. Sell my nice rust free Jaguar, use that cash to build a XJSV12 to go racing with.
I’ve been offered one in Detroit, there is one in Southern Minnesota that has been pretty well stripped but is relatively rust free. Plus there is a Jaguar wrecking yard in Wisconsin about an hour away. My Navy buddy keeps finding me ones in Southern California that while they tend to be rust free would require another trip to San Diego.
The problem is finding a place to race. Vintage racing pretty much stops at 1972
SCCA improved touring requires 1985 or newer
There are groups that accept newer than 1972 V8 sedans like Mustangs, Cameros, but they haven’t answered my inquiry so I guess they don’t want me.
The local clubs used to be pretty flexible I’ll see if any of them will feel comfortable with us.
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