I hate you guys. (Chevy LS content)

When I got back from RallyCross Nats there was a free issue of GRM waiting for me. LS swap stuff, and thank you for telling the real story.

Flash forward to yesterday. Employer said that we got a cold-call from someone who wanted an engine installed in a '90 Regal. Gack, early W-body, run away! But he told me that they probably won't fix it if they don't call back within a week or two, and I should buy it because the job is mostly labor and I can possibly have a decent running car for $1500 or so. I point out that if it needs an engine, a supercharged 3800 fits in the exact same spot as a series 1 3800.

Later, at home, I remembered that the article seemed to imply that the LS4 variant was worthless because it is FWD-specific. Hit up car-part and OH WOW LOOKIT ALL THESE LS4S FOR $650-800.

The very reason that I don't have a decent running car is because everything I own is either tied up in project hell or not something I want to subject to winter. I don't need another project, even if W-bodies haven't really changed all that much in the nose over 20 years and an '06 Impala engine/trans/subframe will likely bolt right in to the Regal that I don't even own yet...

Also, there is no reason for LS4s to be that cheap, they are very RWD-able, since it looks like they just altered the rear to be the same as Generic V6-60 and that means everything that GM did to put a 3800 in an F-body will put an LS4 into any rear drive configuration. The only trick would be putting RWD front dress on it so the throttle body can point forward.

So..............are you done yet?

Except for the starter. There is no provision on the LS4 for a starter, and the combination of v-8 oil pan and tiny flywheel for the 60 degree bell housing makes finding a place for one very difficult. There too, no one makes a flywheel, or flex plate for that matter, in the 60 degree size for a v-8 crank pattern with a starter ring.

Now Speedway has an adapter designed to put SBC transmissions behind 60 degree motors for under $75 that you could use to allow a regular rwd bell housing to bolt onto the back of the LS4, which solves the flywheel issue for the most part (crank is still 1/8" shorter plus the 1/8" steel adapter only make the issue worse) but you will still be on your own for a starter unless you get a very, very old Chevy 6-cylinder bell housing with the starter mount on it instead of the block. Even then, I'm not sure which size of flywheel the old 6 used, and if it's the same size as the LS ones.

Of course, if you find a tiny flywheel or flex plate, or most likely make one, it could mount on the front of the engine with a reverse-spinning Honda 4-cylinder starter mounted to the block for the starter. Sure it would be like a little buzz-saw up front, but then any 60 degree trans would work with a simple turned-down v8 flywheel. Maybe the chain drive Goldwing starter would be less buz-saw like?

oldopelguy wrote: Except for the starter. There is no provision on the LS4 for a starter,

Huh. Didn't know that. Parts lookup shows a starter that looks a lot like an RX-3 topmount.

We don't need no stinking starter. You will have a clutch right? Just never park in the flat.

Nothing says 'grassroots motorsports' like a street car sans starter. It's a light-weight mod.

I was going to suggest a hand crank but parking on a hill would work too.

That or put a steel rear bumper on it and use your tow pig for push starts.

On the Honda starter idea, where is that going? On the front of motor attached to the crank pulley or just on the block side of the engine/trans mounting plane? I have been trying to figure out how to use an LS4 forever as it is STUPID cheap and comes with LS6 (I think) heads, with crappier valve springs.

rcutclif wrote: We don't need no stinking starter. You will have a clutch right?

Automatics don't have clutches.

Wally wrote: I was going to suggest a hand crank but parking on a hill would work too.

Triethylborane.

Ok, I know this thread went off in a RWD direction, but are there any manual transmissions that would work with an LS4 if you kept if FWD?

SEADave wrote: Ok, I know this thread went off in a RWD direction, but are there any manual transmissions that would work with an LS4 if you kept if FWD?

Getrag F23 (J-Body 2200 OHV), GM F40 (various applications, and it's a 6-speed) come to mind.

Here's one with an F40: http://fieroguruperformance.com/?page_id=367

I think he even sells the flywheels now.

Build thread here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000123.html

Knurled wrote:

rcutclif wrote: We don't need no stinking starter. You will have a clutch right?

Automatics don't have clutches.

automatics have a lot of clutches... but they are all buried inside the trans and not pedal activated..

series8217 wrote:

SEADave wrote: Ok, I know this thread went off in a RWD direction, but are there any manual transmissions that would work with an LS4 if you kept if FWD?

Getrag F23 (J-Body 2200 OHV), GM F40 (various applications, and it's a 6-speed) come to mind. Here's one with an F40: http://fieroguruperformance.com/?page_id=367 I think he even sells the flywheels now. Build thread here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000123.html

Those work but have the same starter problems that the RWD trans has.

You know, if you want to use it in a transverse app you could just fit the 4T65e with a full manual shift kit and a slap shifter.

or hack it for flappy paddles. i know a guy that did that.

i say drop ls4 into regal wrongways, and go do millions of front wheel v8 burnouts.

i picked one up for sub $500 to get the 243 heads for my rwd iron 5.3, the heads alone sell for more than complete engines.

...The whole idea was "man, I bet I could do an LS4 swap cheaper than a supercharged 3800 swap into this Regal that needs an engine."

But, in the end, you know what is even cheaper? Not paying scrap value for a Regal (which is, what, $500?) then putting an engine and four calipers/pads/rotors (it's a W-body, it either needs them or they were just done) and brake lines and fuel lines and probably a fuel tank and new tires and ball joints and suddenly you just spent $4k for a quick driver car.

Which is why I nipped this whole idea in the bud. We have a first-gen S40 that we bought from a customer to use as a loaner car, which turned out to have low oil pressure, I'll offer what we have into it. It's the perfect anti-Knurled car: it's a 16-valve DOHC automatic front drive turbo leather-lined sedan. Not AWD, not a wagon, not 2v/cyl, not cloth interior, not a wagon... basically I won't feel bad about dumping it as soon as Quantum #2 is finished. As a bonus, all of the emissions monitors have run and passed, so I know passing emissions won't be an issue. The same can't be said for some old GM that was so neglected that they managed to kill a Buick V6.

(I said wagon twice. I like wagon)