I have seen the future (GM) and it is brilliant.

Anyway, back to now $36K turbo sedans...

You ruled out Audi's (and based on my Great Aunt's 2012 A4 2.0T, you're right to do so!!!) but I had to check BMW again. The 328i M-Sport can be done for $41795. Too pricey. A Sport Line gets you there for $40445, still too high. Yeah, I don't think the 3 is going to happen.

I built a Regal GS with a real color on it for $36190. It's $700 more for the 20's. Just establishing the baseline here.

Where it gets interesting is in GM's own stable. The MT6 option in the ATS Turbo is a near $1200 credit. That means you can rock a RWD ATS Turbo Standard for $34615. That's $1500 less than the FWD Regal! Even if I go back and plop on the premium paint and polished wheels it still comes out to $36410. I think ATS may be the winner here...

Back to the Subaru, you can spec out an STi sedan with a lot of the performance goodies for under $36K. The problem I see is that an Impreza is smaller than the Regal or ATS and the insurance is much higher, on average. If they still offered a Turbo Legacy that would have been a contender.

Unfortunately, SAAB is dead and the only manual trans Volvo left is the C30.

So, yeah, go to Cadillac and try out the ATS Turbo. I have a strong suspicion that RWD will beat FWD.

jde wrote:

failboat wrote: I, and everyone else that also got to ride in both, unanimously preferred the Taurus. Taurus was roomier, had nicer interior materials and was more comfortable, had nicer tech features, and cost about the same as the Buick.

The larger car has more room? I, for one, am shocked. I've spent some time in the new SHO. Good car that would be even better in a Smokey-esque 7/8-scale.

All I was trying to get at was that Ford was offering a nicer car for the same money.

I wouldn't be surprised if a new loaded up Fusion was nicer all around than the Regal Turbo and cost the same or less. Now....where is that SVT Fusion....

Dont be so sure on the 328. My dad just bought one and they will definitely deal on these. His was somethink like 5k off sticker. Remember...its the impala of the bmw world. They need to move units just like any other dealer.

4cylndrfury wrote:

DaveEstey wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: Wait, you option up the BMW and then discount it for having a higher price tag?

same options as what Im looking for in the GS...foglights are standard on the GS, upgraded suspension is standard in the GS, upgraded stereo is standard in the GS. Apples to apples as it were...

You're making the assumption that the standard BMW equipment isn't good enough though, which I think could be the wrong of looking at it without driving one.

Cotton wrote: Doesn't accordionfolder have a new Cruze with a manual? I seem to remember him posting about it and he liked it. It was black and looked damn good.

I do! It's quite a nice car really.

belteshazzar wrote: the Cruze Eco may be a turbo, but it has power like any other modern fuel efficient N/A 4 cylinder engine from half a dozen other companies.

The story that doesn't tell is just how early that torque comes in! It also doesn't note how easily a tune wakes up the motor. I can easily get 50 mpg with careful driving, 40 if it's mixed and I'm not paying attention, and it's still fun enough to keep my attention.

Nothing else that we found had good enough fuel economy to be a competitor at a base model price and came this well equipped. I'm not talking MSRPs that give you a price without A/C, I'm talking what you find on a lot. The only one close was the CR-Z, but it was missing two seats and has a pitiful trunk for a hatch. (Don't get me wrong, I liked the CR-Z, it's just a poor choose when you have two dogs and need to move people/stuff around a lot.)

accordionfolder wrote:

Cotton wrote: Doesn't accordionfolder have a new Cruze with a manual? I seem to remember him posting about it and he liked it. It was black and looked damn good.

I do! It's quite a nice car really.

belteshazzar wrote: the Cruze Eco may be a turbo, but it has power like any other modern fuel efficient N/A 4 cylinder engine from half a dozen other companies.

The story that doesn't tell is just how early that torque comes in! It also doesn't note how easily a tune wakes up the motor. I can easily get 50 mpg with careful driving, 40 if it's mixed and I'm not paying attention, and it's still fun enough to keep my attention. Nothing else that we found had good enough fuel economy to be a competitor at a base model price and came this well equipped. I'm not talking MSRPs that give you a price without A/C, I'm talking what you find on a lot. The only one close was the CR-Z, but it was missing two seats and has a pitiful trunk for a hatch. (Don't get me wrong, I liked the CR-Z, it's just a poor choose when you have two dogs and need to move people/stuff around a lot.)

The Elantra and the Accents give you the mileage and features for the price. I know... I cross shopped them all before we bought a used Forte SX....

In reply to Bobzilla:

We sat in both, they both definitely felt cheaper and are nearly impossible (in my end of the woods) to find one with 3 pedals (We looked for 3 months). Every dealer I went to (kia or hyundai) told me they wouldn't order for me and that they never had any manuals in and then promptly ignored me. On the lot 99% of the ones we found came with more options than you could shake a stick at and had sticker prices farrr above MSRP. It's also 40mpg vs 42 hwy epa estimates which is a good indication what an average driver will accomplish. Like I said, carefully driven I can get 50 mpg MIXED. After a day of autocrossing I still managed 39mpg....

As I was noting the standard equipment OR fit and finish on them is not anywhere up to par with what I found on the Cruze Eco trim level. Personal preference though.

Keep in mind, with the base price on the Eco you also get 17" alloys that look darn good IMO, another thing none of the others managed.

i Liked the solid "thunk" of the doors on the Cruze, but the rest of the interior was lackluster for me.

In reply to accordionfolder:

Wow. I went and look at both the Forte, Rio, Elantra, Accent and Cruze. I thought all of them except the Accent (I know the Accent and Rio are pretty much the same vehicle but the Rio wasn't base and the Accent was) were nicer then the Cruze except in exterior styling. Also there was the opposite problem with the available manuals (the Hyundais and Kias had them available. No Chebies). The Kia dealership was the single slimiest dealership I have ever been in. I couldn't wait to GTFO.

Bobzilla wrote: i Liked the solid "thunk" of the doors on the Cruze, but the rest of the interior was lackluster for me.

I'm obviously biased towards my Cruze.

It's worth noting I was dead set on a Forte 5-door when we first started looking, but like I said, no one would give me one near MSRP and 3 pedals was not something that could even be discussed with any dealer I visited. We then thought, the Fiesta, it looks workable! Nope, no manuals, no ordering, no where near MSRP. Went and talked to the Chevy dealer, had two 6spd ecos on the lot a few options for less than MSRP. (This wasn't a week or two of looking either, this is 2ish months of constant checking....)

Obviously, this is anecdotal evidence: your mileage will vary.

In reply to accordionfolder:

All the Kias were marked up at least $3k here in Huntsville....

93EXCivic wrote: In reply to accordionfolder: The Kia dealership was the single slimiest dealership I have ever been in. I couldn't wait to GTFO.

I share your experience with the Kia (and Hyundai) dealers in my area. I felt like I was being hussled or sold into indentured servitude. It was like all the "bad guy" 80's cars salesman landed there....

That's something that has come up several times in the past....doesn't seem like the Koreans will let you order what you want, so if you don't find it on the lot you're SOL. My wife and I are pretty picky, and I guess our tastes aren't what the masses like, so usually what we want isn't on the lot. If a dealer, or manufacturer, can't accomodate a custom order they probably won't get our business.

Hyundai and Kia are having problems keeping up with demand right now, which is likely why you won't be seeing many custom-ordered vehicles from them.

DaveEstey wrote: Hyundai and Kia are having problems keeping up with demand right now, which is likely why you won't be seeing many custom-ordered vehicles from them.

Actually Hyundai just can't/won't do it. Demand doesn't have anything to do with it.

From a Hyundai forum: "I called Hyundai directly and they told me that they do not yet have a way to do a custom order. They did like the idea and put it down as a suggestion for the future (whatever that means).

The dealer also confirmed that there was no way to order a car, but as said in a previous post, the dealer can 'preference' a car. Preferencing a car still requires that the car has been built somewhere, then it can be delivered to your dealer."

I've heard Kia doesn't do it either, but have never checked into it.

Off on a tangent we were watching the news at lunch and a commercial came on for the plug in Prius. The others at my table thought putting great ideas like into production that is what makes Toyota much better than any American company.

In reply to Wally:

This new plug in Prius...it's sorta like a Volt, but with an extra helping of smug?