I like BMW, they hate me

FuzzWuzzy said:

As far as I know and have read, converting the AWD to RWD isn't too much trouble to get it working, but a full RWD conversion requires a whole new front subframe, suspension, etc etc...At that point, might as well do an engine swap while literally everything is out.

Yeah, the subframes are different, but the most important change is in the actual transmission tunnel, the tunnel is wider to accommodate the transfer case so there's nowhere for the RWD transmission cross-member to attach.  

FWIW, when you unplug the actuator in an xDrive BMW, it defaults to RWD, but you have no ABS or traction control.  I had my E91 unplugged for a while because the fluid was worn and causing shuddering on acceleration.  I currently have my E83 unplugged because I'm an idiot and dumped out a bunch of TC fluid while changing the transmission fluid and then rounded the fill plug (its also in an awkward spot) and couldn't put any more fluid in. 

I wish it was just RWD.  

The Ultimate Maintenance Machine 

Appleseed said:

The Ultimate Maintenance Machine 

I wonder if in the future, the owners of today's BMWs will be openly mocking their own car's reliability, like Land Rover owners today.

Toyman01 said:

I've owned one and it was a POS. 

I was tempted by a newer one the other day. Finding out it has a water cooled alternator reminded me why I swore off owning another. It was a near thing. 

 

They are not really a failure point. I have 180k daily driver miles on my 17 year old water cooled alternator.

BMW has not made anything this century that I have any interest in owning.   They turned into disposable appliances about that time.

Toebra said:

BMW has not made anything this century that I have any interest in owning.   They turned into disposable appliances about that time.

Oh, I can't agree with that one.  The 1-series M, and M2 are very, very tasty machines---- not at all appliances.  It's clear BMW can still make an incredibly entertaining performance cars. 

 The reliability issues though.........are problematic.

Chris_V said:

Toyman01 said:

I've owned one and it was a POS. 

I was tempted by a newer one the other day. Finding out it has a water cooled alternator reminded me why I swore off owning another. It was a near thing. 

 

They are not really a failure point. I have 180k daily driver miles on my 17 year old water cooled alternator.

I did some research on that, and you are correct. They don't fail any worse than most. I also priced them and the alternators aren't much more expensive than the one I just replaced on my P71. I just can't get past the complication for the sake of engineering. I can't do it. I like simple things that work. 

There is a reason I sold a 1985 BMW and bought a simpler 2006 Ford. 

GameboyRMH said:

Appleseed said:

The Ultimate Maintenance Machine 

I wonder if in the future, the owners of today's BMWs will be openly mocking their own car's reliability, like Land Rover owners today.

I think that's the current state.

I daily a 1998 Saturn.  By all accounts it is a highly neglected crappy appliance.  But it always works, and its maintenance requirements are extremely low.

My 2 rallyx teammates have E46s.  They would absolutely rather push their car than even set foot in mine.

In reply to Toyman01 :

Re the water-cooled alternator, the one in my dad's 540i failed at 90k miles. Even BMW got rid of it in the next gen 5 series.

The water cooled alternator failed at the same time the PS pump did, which took out some belt if I remember right, or vice versa. 

Sad to read this. I wanted a fun weekend and autocross car, and would have loved to buy an E36 or E46, but got scared off.

Bought a Miata instead. 

We've had several BMW's (starting with a 2002) and wife has an 2001 E46 330ci (convertible) now with 215k miles.  I've done the maintenance, including the cooling system (twice), vanos rebuild, PCV system, shocks/bushings/FLCA's.  The top stopped working and the dealer quoted $1900 to fix it.  I found a broken wire and spent $5 on a roll of 18 gauge black wire to get it going again.  It's always burned oil but the low sump switch is reliable and wife lets me know when it needs to be fed.  I've replaced one wheel bearing and installed a refurbished drive shaft when the CV joint at the differential end wore out. No one else has reproduced the driving dynamics but I've broken it to her that it's our last BMW.  

This seems like the appropriate place to ask this question. 

I have spent over a year doing research and making decisions as to what my next car will be. 

My final two were BMW 128 and FR-S/BRZ.

A couple days ago I finalized on a 128. I do all of my own maintenance and 80% of all repairs exterior to the engine. Engine internals are a no go for me for many reasons. After reading this thread it makes me want to reconsider my choice. What say the hive?

gunner said:

This seems like the appropriate place to ask this question. 

 

I have spent over a year doing research and making decisions as to what my next car will be. 

My final two were BMW 128 and FR-S/BRZ.

A couple days ago I finalized on a 128. I do all of my own maintenance and 80% of all repairs exterior to the engine. Engine internals are a no go for me for many reasons. After reading this thread it makes me want to reconsider my choice. What say the hive?

That was pretty much my daily driver shortlist too. The interior styling, overall size, and familiarity with BMW service and maintenance swayed me to the Bavarian side of the Force. I've had it for less than a year at this point, but so far it's done nothing but validate my choice. The FR-S/BRZ might be more fun as a toy, but I think the E82 makes a better daily.

In reply to 02Pilot :

I like what you say.

In reply to docwyte :

I am kind of wondering about this - like VWs, is there a year range when they get reliable again?

My E46 was totally reliable. It needed some of the usual BMW items, but it never once failed to run and drive. I would like a modern one to replace it... but I also want one I can own for 10 or 12 years. 

I drove the crap out if it and it probably had 80 autocross passes on it too. 

I've been mulling trying to get my dad into something that both he and my mom will like but that is still "sporty" without being a low-slung, high-hp machine for someone who I know will only use about 25% of the cars potential.  I've been looking hard at the 128i, seems like that's the only BMW I should include on the list.  I don't want to go more earlier than about a 2010, regardless of make.  

02Pilot said:

I went through months of agonizing over whether to move on from my 200k mile E39 525i into something newer or just keep it in spite of rust issues from prior crash repairs. The decision to move on was made in part by conversations with my long-time BMW specialist indy who advocated normally-aspirated and fewest options possible for maximum long-term reliability. My non-iDrive, manual transmission, full service history 128i is the result. Not that I'm not nervous, but at least I can handle most of the repairs on this myself.

I really wanted a 128i with the M sport initially but this 135i was too much of a good deal (or so I thought). I'm actually debating getting rid of this and finding a 128i. The turbo motor adds a lot of complexity and there are some other known problems that I don't want to deal with. I can do the stupid electric water pump, crappy bushings, and fix the inevitable oil leaks, but add direct injection and turbos, and it becomes a turd. 

Also, the 135i is almost too fast for the street and they can get hot on the track. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend.

kilgoretrout said:

02Pilot said:

I went through months of agonizing over whether to move on from my 200k mile E39 525i into something newer or just keep it in spite of rust issues from prior crash repairs. The decision to move on was made in part by conversations with my long-time BMW specialist indy who advocated normally-aspirated and fewest options possible for maximum long-term reliability. My non-iDrive, manual transmission, full service history 128i is the result. Not that I'm not nervous, but at least I can handle most of the repairs on this myself.

I really wanted a 128i with the M sport initially but this 135i was too much of a good deal (or so I thought). I'm actually debating getting rid of this and finding a 128i. The turbo motor adds a lot of complexity and there are some other known problems that I don't want to deal with. I can do the stupid electric water pump, crappy bushings, and fix the inevitable oil leaks, but add direct injection and turbos, and it becomes a turd. 

Also, the 135i is almost too fast for the street and they can get hot on the track. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend.

My indy had a car with the turbo motor in for the HPFP and something else (maybe walnut blasting the intake). I got one look at the DI setup and that put me off ever owning one. The NA 3.0 N51/52 has more than enough power for my needs (my car is close to E36 M3 P/W ratio with no engine mods), and it's far simpler.  I keep my cars a long time, and like you I'm well-versed in the litany of typical BMW maintenance items, but the added complexity of the turbo motor scared me off right quick.

The E9x 3-series of the same period should be similarly simple, provided you can find one with RWD, a manual, and an NA motor, since it's a shared platform. Yes, it will likely have iDrive, but if you can live with that the rest should be reasonably easy to deal with. I wanted small, so I went with the 1-series, but they are a lot less common, especially with the M-Sport package.

Since it was mentioned, I just traded my BRZ in for the my '13 135i. BRZ had a tune, cat-back, Ground Control coilovers and until very recently 18x9.5 RPF1s with 255/35 Star Specs.

The 135i is every bit as fun and holds the road every bit as well (and it's bone stock............for now). Add in it's a bit more "mature," it's much easier to get in and out of, much much nicer interior, the HK stereo is great compared to a lot of other factory stuff I've heard, oh and it's SUPER quick and I get whooshy turbo noises.

However, I'm scared about the thought of something major breaking. But it only has 28k miles on it, so I'm hoping that won't happen. In the 4 months since I've brought it home, I've only put about 1300 miles on it. I work from home a few days per week, the office is only 6 miles away, and we use the girlfriends Honda Fit for errand running.

02Pilot said:

The E9x 3-series of the same period should be similarly simple, provided you can find one with RWD, a manual, and an NA motor, since it's a shared platform. Yes, it will likely have iDrive, but if you can live with that the rest should be reasonably easy to deal with. I wanted small, so I went with the 1-series, but they are a lot less common, especially with the M-Sport package.

While the original iDrive was pretty annoying, the 2009 refresh (called the "CIC" system) of the iDrive system is actually pretty good, and the later iterations (The "NBT" system 2013+) have only gotten better.  I'll also +1 you on the RWD/NA/Manual comment, its the best way to own an E9x or E82 chassis car.  You'll still get valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gasket and eccentric shaft gasket leaks, but none of those issues will strand you and they're not awful to fix.  Bushings wear too, but that's just a good reason to upgrade to M3 stuff!

FWIW, when you unplug the actuator in an xDrive BMW, it defaults to RWD, but you have no ABS or traction control.  I had my E91 unplugged for a while because the fluid was worn and causing shuddering on acceleration.  I currently have my E83 unplugged because I'm an idiot and dumped out a bunch of TC fluid while changing the transmission fluid and then rounded the fill plug (its also in an awkward spot) and couldn't put any more fluid in. 

I wish it was just RWD.  

I have an E83 (my second) -- so if the AWD dies, what do I unplug?  Traction control and ABS be damned.

I have nothing to add here.  But I thought this was too funny not to repeat.

suspension bushings made out of gummy bears

Joe Gearin said:

Toebra said:

BMW has not made anything this century that I have any interest in owning.   They turned into disposable appliances about that time.

Oh, I can't agree with that one.  The 1-series M, and M2 are very, very tasty machines---- not at all appliances.  It's clear BMW can still make an incredibly entertaining performance cars. 

 

 The reliability issues though.........are problematic.

I would totally rock one if it belonged to someone else, lease, or a company car, sure.  To own, not a chance.  To my mind, no matter how engaging, if it is a disposable vehicle, it is an appliance.  Any vehicle I would not consider owning out of warranty, I would not consider owning at all.  Audi, looking at you also.

gunner said:

This seems like the appropriate place to ask this question. 

 

I have spent over a year doing research and making decisions as to what my next car will be. 

My final two were BMW 128 and FR-S/BRZ.

A couple days ago I finalized on a 128. I do all of my own maintenance and 80% of all repairs exterior to the engine. Engine internals are a no go for me for many reasons. After reading this thread it makes me want to reconsider my choice. What say the hive?

Ah, a question I can answer!  I bought a '15 BRZ new and now own a 128i and R56 Cooper S.  My first thought is I should have driven the BMW before I bought the BRZ, I never would have purchased it.  I love the BMW, even with the added maintenance, the BRZ I tolerated.  I know that goes against the grain here, but it's simply not even close in terms of driving enjoyment.  Now if it were just going to be a track car, that might change in the Subaru's favor, but as a real car, the 128 is simply better.  I drives better, brakes better, is more comfortable to be in, etc.  I've owned BMWs in the past, but this one is perhaps my favorite, so much so I am thinking about adding a 135 to the lineup for taking to the track.  

JBasham said:

I have an E83 (my second) -- so if the AWD dies, what do I unplug?  Traction control and ABS be damned.

On the E83, its super easy.  Lift up the trunk floor cover, then undo the three plastic center-pin rivets that hold the rest of trunk floor cover down.  Lift up that cover and there'll be a shiny silver module on the passenger side of the compartment.  Unplug the two connectors, and wala, no AWD, Traction control or ABS.