I lost my mind (Jeep)

OK, recent snow storms pissed me off. So I did what any logical person would do. I bought a 03 Jeep Rubicon with a 4 inch lift. Go god this thing is bad ass. I have never driven off road, but apparently if I ever want to it has dyna (SP)44"s front and rear with Air lockers? Apparently its all stock except for the 4 inch lift. I kinda want to go drive on something that is not a road. According to the sales guy it wont get stuck in the snow. Are there any places I can learn to drive off road. Like a driving school or something. I know there are trails in Colorado, but how do you get involved in something like that.

hit the serious jeep n trail forums

good luck n have fun

they do really well on ice. Next time you have sheet ice don't even bother to slow down. Drive it like the road is dry. You'll have fun passing and dodging everybody else. They are unstoppable.

Don't listen to me.

Please

Check out this website, its a little bit more "grown up" then a lot of forums, similar to this one but with off roading.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/index.php?s=582bf67a816d96d139a08b4fc9bae5d6

+1 expedition portal. I am over there a lot.

xd wrote: OK, recent snow storms pissed me off. So I did what any logical person would do. I bought a 03 Jeep Rubicon with a 4 inch lift. Go god this thing is bad ass. I have never driven off road, but apparently if I ever want to it has dyna (SP)44"s front and rear with Air lockers? Apparently its all stock except for the 4 inch lift. I kinda want to go drive on something that is not a road. According to the sales guy it wont get stuck in the snow. Are there any places I can learn to drive off road. Like a driving school or something. I know there are trails in Colorado, but how do you get involved in something like that.

1. The axles are DANA 44s, a very strong, very excellent axle. If you call it a "Dyna" around Jeep guys you will have zippy credibility ;) Dana makes many different axles (Dana 30, Dana 35, Dana 50, etc) for many different vehicles. The Dana 44 was developed in the 1950s as I recall, and is on all kinds of vehicles from Dodges to Fords to even Nissan Titans. Learn your axles, Jeepers talk about axles like racers talk about turbochargers or seats.

2. It won't get stuck in the snow, but keep in mind that if you're running oversize tires (especially BFG A/T KO's, the popular choice), it will have lots of trouble STOPPING on snowy roads (and rainy roads sometimes). My XJ ended up in the middle of intersections more than once once I had the 32's on it. Was never an issue with the stock-ish size tires. Go to any junkyard and almost every Jeep you see from the last 20 years there is there due to front-end damage. Jeeps don't like to stop (though newer models have gotten better).

3. Don't call it "off-roading," call it WHEELING. Credibility again, lol.

4. Colorado has great wheeling terrain. Get involved on the Jeep forums, and find your local Jeep forum (mine is NovaJeepers for DC area). Jeep guys love to hang out together, are usually super-friendly, and will saw off their arms to help you get out of a mud pit when wheeling in the wilderness, lol. Most Jeep clubs set up regular wheeling weekends, usually led by the experienced guys, who show you where to go, find the cool trails/terrain, and don't take you places where you can get in trouble (which is easier to do than you might think).

5. Get a CB. When wheeling with groups, that's how everybody talks to each other, calls out obstacles, sets up directions, and keeps in touch in case of someone getting stuck or broken down. THIS IS A MUST if you're going to hit the trails.

6. Never wheel alone. No matter how badass your Jeep may be, at some point you will get stuck, or will break down, or will debead a tire.....and you will want another guy there with his winch, or his giant toolkit, or his jury-rigging know-how.

7. Jeep parts are cheap and plentiful. Don't be scared to break something. And don't fret over squeaks, rattles, and leaks. You won't be able to fix them all, and you'll frustrate yourself trying (IMO). Also if you're lifted you probably have non-stock-size tires. Carry a spare the same size as the rest of your tires if that's the case.

8. Make sure your front suspension bushings (in particular) and your steering assembly and steering stabilizer (like a transverse-mounted strut) are in good shape. There is nothing scarier than "death rattle" in a lifted Jeep. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you will at some point in time. Jeeps have bulletproof supensions, but their design that gives them so much flex/offroad ability also lends itself to wierd harmonics and vibrations at highway speeds if not maintained.

9. Never, ever, ever litter on a trail or disrespect natural areas or private property (unless you have permission on said property). Real "Jeep Guys" will shun you if you do. Carry a trash-bag with you on every outing. Jeepers, for the most part, are pretty adament about respecting nature, etc....

10. Have fun!

11. Oh, and please don't put lame cliche "Jeep" stickers on your rig. ...you know the "If you can read this, roll me back over" or "It's a Jeep thing...." or "H2 recovery vehicle."

12. Jeep wave. Generally speaking, Jeepers will give a cheesy wave to each other when passing on the road, particularly those that are modded/lifted. If you don't wave, peopel will think you're an shiny happy person. Just sayin' :D

Disclaimer: after a couple years building my XJ to be a fun offroader, I ended up selling it because I hated driving it on the paved road and it's 200 miles to the nearest good (and LEGAL) wheeling. If I lived in Colorado, I would definitely still have it! I only really wheeled it a couple times and it was alot of fun though.

I hate this thread. I was hoping I could hold out modifying my xj for another year or two.

damnit. Do I really have to go to my "wheels for sale/trade/partial" thread and add on that I am also interested in 4wd XJ's?

Just sold our 05 - same as Irish44. Tie rods are a weak link. You can upgrade to 93-97 grand cherokee tie rod with TJ ends - a little stronger. With a lift and bigger tires - the steering stabilizer will have a short life. So will brake pads. A rancho hd stabilizer will survive better.A lot of the lifts have overly stiff shocks. Bilstein 5100s are a lot more comfy to live with. Super easy to work on. Oh, some of the best mud tires are not so good on wet pavement. Stuff that's good on wet may have trouble in the deep stuff. Careful starting out - the lockers can get you into places that are really tough to get out of if you get stuck. Pay attention to offroad park signs - most aren't kidding when they warn about body damage.

the old rig

corytate wrote: damnit. Do I really have to go to my "wheels for sale/trade/partial" thread and add on that I am also interested in 4wd XJ's?

I'd say yes. Ours is one of of my best purchases ever.

I picked up my XJ because it was a cheap 4x4 that ran. I didn't care about much else due to the low price. Now that the engine is sorted pretty well, the Jeep is a really great vehicle. I still have to go through the suspension and possibly source a new transmission, but nothing is very expensive to replace on these things.

I've only gotten stuck once, and that's because I was high centered. With tires and maybe a very mild lift of around 3", I wouldn't be afraid to take it just about anywhere around my parts, save for the deep man-made mud bogs the guys play in out here.

What ever you do, don't look at websites like this, your pocket book will be empty in no time.

A Hi-Lift jack is a good all around tool. You can even use it to winch yourself out of a situation before you ultimately buy a good electric winch.

You mentioned Colorado, but what part of the country are you in?

One more bit of advice: If you never get stuck, you're not trying hard enough.

a401cj wrote: they do really well on ice. Next time you have sheet ice don't even bother to slow down. Drive it like the road is dry. You'll have fun passing and dodging everybody else. They are unstoppable. Don't listen to me. Please

I'm bad at internet sarcasm. Wranglers have a short wheelbase and spin like a top on ice in the street.

Mud tires don't translate to snow and vice versa as well as you would think.

I bought a Cherokee for snow and thought it was overkill until I woke up one morning to 3 feet of snow :)

I always wanted a stockish rubicon. Have fun :)

xd wrote: Are there any places I can learn to drive off road. Like a driving school or something.

Golf courses at night.

Start with the axled UNLOCKED for the first few times. Trust me. No matter how well-prepped a Jeep is, it will get stuck. The better preparred it is, the farther in the crap you will get stuck. Those axles are good LSD units when unlocked so you will still be amazed.
Get yourself some good recovery gear. Don't be that dude on the trail that gets stuck, then relies on other 'wheelers to get you out. Get 2 straps (2.5" wide or so), a hi-lift jack and good recovery points on the Jeep. Like others have said, go with other experienced Jeepers and learn from them, it's much harder than it looks (though a Rubi will make things easier). Here's a pic of my last Jeep.

Just decided to look into offroad stuff in SC (just accepted a job out there starting this summer) and it looks like there's actually some good wheelin' out that way. Damn damn damn...

Don't the Rubicons come with Goodyear Wrangler MTRs? I found those TERRIBLE on ice, so be careful! May want to swap out to Goodyear Wrangler Dura-Tracs, which I hear are pretty much the perfect aggressive A/T tire.

It was mentioned above about a Rancho steering stabilizer and Bilstein shocks. For Jeeps, I'm pretty partial to Old Man Emu (OME) stuff. Great quality, not super-expensive, and it's kind of an "insider" brand. I would consider it a better alternative (and similar price) to Rancho. Just my opinion, and that is having to do with the XJ, but OME has a great reputation.

As Osterkraut said, I think they do have MTRs (or possibly BFG M/T). Both of which kind of suck on ice and are not great in snow.

If I still had my XJ, I would get rid of the BFG A/T's and get the Bridgestone Revo2's that I currently have on the 4Runner. Great offroad tread, siped for snow and ice traction, excellent street ride, great street handling. Overall the best A/T tire I've ever used, by a wide margin.

It took all of 5 min of ownership with my wife's new JK before we started modifying it, minor stuff thus far, but wheels and tires along with bigger axles are in the cards. We're planning on taking some runs up to the N.GA/NC trails this year, and my wife will be driving

I've been learning Jeeps are like pickup trucks, when you've never owned one you don't know what you're missing, once you have one you can't live without them...

irish44j wrote: It was mentioned above about a Rancho steering stabilizer and Bilstein shocks. For Jeeps, I'm pretty partial to Old Man Emu (OME) stuff. Great quality, not super-expensive, and it's kind of an "insider" brand. I would consider it a better alternative (and similar price) to Rancho. Just my opinion, and that is having to do with the XJ, but OME has a great reputation. As Osterkraut said, I think they do have MTRs (or possibly BFG M/T). Both of which kind of suck on ice and are not great in snow. If I still had my XJ, I would get rid of the BFG A/T's and get the Bridgestone Revo2's that I currently have on the 4Runner. Great offroad tread, siped for snow and ice traction, excellent street ride, great street handling. Overall the best A/T tire I've ever used, by a wide margin.

My XJ has 178k miles on it... pretty sure it's literally the original suspension.

Any mild lift kits you would recommend that would likely yield an improvement or at least keep a similar ride quality?

I like to "maintainify" my vehicles.

I'd like about a 3" lift, but don't particularly want the "death wobble."

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

irish44j wrote: It was mentioned above about a Rancho steering stabilizer and Bilstein shocks. For Jeeps, I'm pretty partial to Old Man Emu (OME) stuff. Great quality, not super-expensive, and it's kind of an "insider" brand. I would consider it a better alternative (and similar price) to Rancho. Just my opinion, and that is having to do with the XJ, but OME has a great reputation. As Osterkraut said, I think they do have MTRs (or possibly BFG M/T). Both of which kind of suck on ice and are not great in snow. If I still had my XJ, I would get rid of the BFG A/T's and get the Bridgestone Revo2's that I currently have on the 4Runner. Great offroad tread, siped for snow and ice traction, excellent street ride, great street handling. Overall the best A/T tire I've ever used, by a wide margin.

My XJ has 178k miles on it... pretty sure it's literally the original suspension. Any mild lift kits you would recommend that would likely yield an improvement or at least keep a similar ride quality? I like to "maintainify" my vehicles. I'd like about a 3" lift, but don't particularly want the "death wobble."

I've had a 3 inch on two XJs and never got death wobble. If you do there are other issues at hand. My XJ has a 5.5" lift now and a lower control arm drop cured the initial death wobble. I wanted the 5.5 to clear 33s, which it does, but if I had it to do all over I'd stick with the 3 inch and 31s. For what I do the extra lift and tire isn't really needed.

^^ as he said, LCA drop, and keepint your BJs and bushings in good shape will keep the death wobble away. I got mine soon after I bought it (on 32s, with some worn suspension and steering). Once I replaced everything on the front end I never got it again.

What lift you use really has alot to do with what you're doing with the truck or how much ride quality you're willing to sacrifice. I don't pretend to be a true XJ expert, and I sold it like 2-3 years ago so my memory is a bit hazy as well.

I would do some drop shackles in the rear and maybe some Grand Cherokee springs up front initially. Don't do an immediate 3+" lift, because then you're going to need to worry about transfer case drops and/or slip-yoke modifications. On an XJ I like about 2-3" with 31s as an ideal setup for doing mostly anything aside from hardcore crawling.

I woudln't use lift blocks in the rear, and add-a-leaf setups work fine, but make for a stiff ride.

Here we are on are way to Matanuska Glacier (my old 93 XJ)

Arctic circle (in Canada)

My current XJ (2001)

My current XJ has a 98 Grand Cherokee rear axle (Chrysler 8.25 with disk brakes)

as for tires, I use the Kumho Road Venture AT.

My first thought - like so many others here! - was that mud tires don't make great snow tires. BFG ATs look badass, but they suck in the white stuff. You want sipes. Which also seems to be the key to Moab slickrock, so that's a plus. If it was a serious rig around here, it would have hand-cut sipes already.

colorado4x4.org is probably a good place to get yourself started.