I need help choosing an engine swap.

In reply to APEowner :

22re in 1985. One of the better versions. Turbo has been done. Head doesn't like airflow or high rpm. Stuff cubes down the top. Well built it's about 350-450hp. Not much more than that. VE of a 22re sucks. 

Another option is the 200 hp Beams 4 cylinder with the accompanying 6 speed manual transmission 

Man, a whole lot of good suggestions here. Thanks guys, I knew I could count on you all for great input. 

Keith Tanner said:

Super cheap and different and effective don't usually live in the same neighborhood. Unless your buddy is paying for your time to engineer a custom implementation and is willing to give you a long enough timeframe to debug it,, take the easy route. 

This is definitely a back burner project. I picked up the car but he's said he's fine if it takes a year to do. I still have to finish my LS e30, the f355, the stypeR, and hopefully an LS audi along with whatever else drops onto my plate. The celica, and I think the ra65 chassis specifically, is his unicorn car. The car that you always come back to.

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

BMW V8 and manual transmission (1997 or later M62 + BMW 5 or 6-speed from similar gen sedan.  Done.)

Mazda KL-series V6?  KL-ZE is only 217bhp, but revs to the moon and makes lovely noises.  I think they tend to use the Miata or RX-7 transmissions.

I do like the modern GM V6 swap using the LSx architecture.  285bhp out of the box and again, a lovely noise.  Use the Camaro transmission and have a new driveshaft made.

If you have an R-154 (or put one in) then the options are more open as there are several bellhousings available to adapt a large number of engine families.

Just some thoughts.

I'm a huge BMW fan but I wouldn't touch the v8 with a ten foot pole. I don't even really like the 1u aside from it's brand matching to the chassis. If I had my druthers, it'd just be LS swapped for reliability and underutilization of the architecture but that's incredibly boring.

The Mazda engine is a really cool idea. If that made ~80 more hp it would definitely be a contender. I've heard them, they actually sounds really really good.

Vajingo said:

I've done the 1uz swap into That same chassis. Don't do it. It's great power, but the big hurdles are- the drivers side header will ALWAYS require removing the steering linkage to remove and install, and there's barely any room to make the header better flowing.

 The starter is ####ing buried. If it needs replaced, plan on about $400 in gaskets. And if you are changing the starter- buy a legit toyota denso unit ($$$). No need to do it twice in a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the factory Ecu, there is not enough info to get you 100% wired up. There's a fellow on lextreme forums named Nigel and another named Smithers. They will help you greatly for wiring, but they are rarely on that forum anymore since they have moved on.
If you go this route, the easy button is Xcessive manufacturing in Tigard, Oregon for the bellhousing swap. You can also shave a ton of money off by using a 5sfe flywheel altered by xcessive. Then use an uprated 22re clutch kit.

The front sway can be from an ae86 but you'll need super long end links. Or go nascar front bar. 

I'm here to help. My ra64 ended up being less than the sum of its parts. In the end, I basically built a lighter version of a Fox body Mustang. 

What header did you use? I've heard talk of a t100/4runner 1uz swap header that might be more promising? Worst case, I just make a header I guess.

I used the xcessive swap stuff when I did a 2j swap in an ra65 a few years ago. Talk about bolt together and forget it. That was great. I'm so used to having to build everything.

The wiring doesn't dissuade me. I wired a volvo whiteblock turbo motor into an e30, this archaic stuff is easy!

NOHOME said:

So that people like me who have no clue what ra65 Celica might be, see below.

The pic also included the correct answer. The swap has been done and DEVELOPED to some degree.  Toyota engine in a Toyota has value to the next buyer.  Being able to go on line and google similar swaps is as close as your buddy is going to have to an owners/shop manual for the car. Dont make his life difficult by building a one-of-one vehicle.

Your buddy is tight with $$$ and wants you to do the work so that you can be responsible for the results; how often to you want to drive to his house to fix some silly swap issue that he was too frugal to do right the first time? Thing with doing work for $$$ is that you are on the hook for the results and expectations. 

 

I appreciate this outlook. Maybe I overstated the cost factor. We're both just cheap as hell. He's not saddling me with the responsibility of repair/diag down the road. The car is going to live on the other side of the country. He's more than mechanically apt to do the swap himself, he just values my attention to detail, desire for an OEM+ looking swap, and most importantly he just doesn't have the time. He bought a new business last year and is in the process of expanding. I've seen that video before and I think that was was really drove home the 1u choice. It's almost a nobrainer, I was just craving lunacy in the form of another option.

amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:

Another option is the 200 hp Beams 4 cylinder with the accompanying 6 speed manual transmission 

This was thrown around a lot when he had a previous gen celica. They're comparatively inexpensive and okay horsepower.

Furious_E (Forum Supporter) said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

was hoping you wanted random suggestions.  came here to suggest 13B F250.

Brapdozer ftw

Brapdozer made me LOL. I feel so at home here.

Just for more options I'll throw in the 302/T5 combo. Small footprint, decent power, carb/efi, etc. not going to win any uniqueness contests though and will probably hold less value than a 1uz swap.

Building custom headers for a 1UZ is probably going to be easier than any other swap would be. I've done custom headers for almost every swap I've done, it's fun.

I like the BEAMS, followed by good old American pushrods if only for space. The problems Vajingo mentioned for what amounts to a snooty Japanese foxbody strike a note. Why not make a snooty foxbody that's easy to work on? Yep, LS or 5.0 might be my choice. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I did the customer header. The drivers side in that chassis with the 1uz was the biggest back ache I've ever felt. It went like this:

1)disconnect the steering linkage. 
2)bolt up your chopped up stock header

3)reconnect steering linkage

4) set in place a tiny chunk of metal tubing and start measuring what needs cut. 
5)cut tiny metal chunk

6) remove header.
7)tack weld chunk into place

8)install header

9)instal steering linkage

10)get on knees and pray linkage doesn't interfere. 
11)repeat this process 2,500,000 times. 
12) see a chiropractor. 

The other issue is ground clearance. Since the ra chassis never came with dual exhaust there isn't much room. I ended up doing side exit exhaust to simplify and oval pipe with two bolt flanges for everything. 

Here she sits installed  it's tight between the hood  had a bracket on the front I had to remove  

Vajingo said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I did the customer header. The drivers side in that chassis with the 1uz was the biggest back ache I've ever felt. It went like this:

1)disconnect the steering linkage. 
2)bolt up your chopped up stock header

3)reconnect steering linkage

4) set in place a tiny chunk of metal tubing and start measuring what needs cut. 
5)cut tiny metal chunk

6) remove header.
7)tack weld chunk into place

8)install header

9)instal steering linkage

10)get on knees and pray linkage doesn't interfere. 
11)repeat this process 2,500,000 times. 
12) see a chiropractor. 

You need to invest in a set of "header lego" from Icengineworks. It would have paid for itself. The headers in my MG have to deal with a steering column that's so close to the engine I had to go to a smaller diameter to avoid fouling the head bolts. The lego made it super-easy to plan and duplicate.

Vajingo said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I did the customer header. The drivers side in that chassis with the 1uz was the biggest back ache I've ever felt. It went like this:

1)disconnect the steering linkage. 
2)bolt up your chopped up stock header

3)reconnect steering linkage

4) set in place a tiny chunk of metal tubing and start measuring what needs cut. 
5)cut tiny metal chunk

6) remove header.
7)tack weld chunk into place

8)install header

9)instal steering linkage

10)get on knees and pray linkage doesn't interfere. 
11)repeat this process 2,500,000 times. 
12) see a chiropractor. 

That sounds about right for all my exhaust jobs. I'm usually too cheap to by mandrel bends and pie cut all the swaps I do. Is yours running? Where are you located?

I just had a really dumb idea.

1UR. V8 for glorious noises. 350-385hp depending on application. Adapter available to go to a cd009. Brand loyalty. I wonder if I can convince him to spend a few more bucks. Then I guess ECU would be the big hurdle. As long as it fits in the enginebay of course...

In reply to iansane :

My swap ran well once all the electrical issues were sorted. The 1ur is a hassle on the Ecu side. There's a guy on the celica forum that's had his engine installed for three years and never figured out a way around the canbus. 

Keith Tanner said:

Vajingo said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I did the customer header. The drivers side in that chassis with the 1uz was the biggest back ache I've ever felt. It went like this:

1)disconnect the steering linkage. 
2)bolt up your chopped up stock header

3)reconnect steering linkage

4) set in place a tiny chunk of metal tubing and start measuring what needs cut. 
5)cut tiny metal chunk

6) remove header.
7)tack weld chunk into place

8)install header

9)instal steering linkage

10)get on knees and pray linkage doesn't interfere. 
11)repeat this process 2,500,000 times. 
12) see a chiropractor. 

You need to invest in a set of "header lego" from Icengineworks. It would have paid for itself. The headers in my MG have to deal with a steering column that's so close to the engine I had to go to a smaller diameter to avoid fouling the head bolts. The lego made it super-easy to plan and duplicate.

I would've loved those. Wasn't in the budget at the time though and hard to justify for doing it just one time. 

Figure the hours you spent and it might have been cheaper.

We've used them for designing water lines, intercooler piping, intakes and - of course - exhausts. I cannot overstate how useful they are. There are some knockoff 3D models out there but make sure the designer understood the concept - each piece is 1" long and it's marked every 45* so you get the clocking correct. Without those two attributes, they're a lot more hit and miss.

In reply to Vajingo :

If you know someone with a 3D printer, you can make your own:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1649639

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Vajingo :

If you know someone with a 3D printer, you can make your own:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1649639

Note that those are not 1" segments, so if you're building to a specific length they may not be ideal. But in cases like this, it's more likely you're building to fit!

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Vajingo :

If you know someone with a 3D printer, you can make your own:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1649639

I do now have a 3-D printer! Thank you so much!

In reply to iansane :

How about a Ford SHO V6? The original, DOHC, 3.0L, iron block, Yamaha-designed aluminum heads, awesome intake manifold, 220 hp, 8000 rpm engine from the '89 Taurus SHO?

I just happen to have one sitting around with nothing to put it in....new bearings, rings, gaskets, timing belt, etc. Built it for a project but sold the car to a guy who's going to put a Tesla drivetrain in it, didn't want the engine.

Keith Tanner said:

Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Vajingo :

If you know someone with a 3D printer, you can make your own:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1649639

Note that those are not 1" segments, so if you're building to a specific length they may not be ideal. But in cases like this, it's more likely you're building to fit!

You can control their height and there are other diameters available.  Its not perfect by any means, but it could help in a pinch.

In reply to earlybroncoguy1 :

Oooh, now that's an off the wall idea.  I love it.  Well done.

earlybroncoguy1 said:

In reply to iansane :

How about a Ford SHO V6? The original, DOHC, 3.0L, iron block, Yamaha-designed aluminum heads, awesome intake manifold, 220 hp, 8000 rpm engine from the '89 Taurus SHO?

I just happen to have one sitting around with nothing to put it in....new bearings, rings, gaskets, timing belt, etc. Built it for a project but sold the car to a guy who's going to put a Tesla drivetrain in it, didn't want the engine.

Oooh. Iiiinteresting. I'll shoot my buddy the idea. Plus the intake looks cool as hell.

In reply to iansane :

Couple of photos I took during the build - after freshening the internals, I cleaned up the outside a bit:

Painted block and heads aluminum, oil pan a slightly different shade, valve covers a wrinkle finish black, intake runners a matte black, timing belt cover and cam sensor silver, new water pump. Changed the water pulley to a wider one from a 3.2 SHO so I could run a single 6 rib serpentine belt for the pump and new, smaller, lighter, one wire alternator. Also fabricated a bracket to reposition the ignition coil pack. The bolt pattern intake on the SHO is symmetrical, so the entire upper intake can be turned 180 degrees from stock and reinstalled if it fits an engine compartment better that way. Have everything that goes with it - wiring harness, ECU, MAF, exhaust manifolds, original flywheel (plus a custom aftermarket flywheel), etc. 

One really cool looking option would be the Yamaha/Ford OHC V6 - not going to find  a nicer looking engine. Less power than a modern Ford Ecoboost V6 turbo, but much nicer looking. And if you want more power, here is an old thread about a 600 bhp turbo version

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/5377/