01-04 vs 05+ Mustang GT
Earlier model nice GTs are getting ridiculously affordable. And even early S197s are popping up in the $15k range for fairly nice examples.
I know the S197 has 40hp more, but what about weight? Chassis stiffness? Suspension?
I much prefer the looks of the S197, but the earlier models seem to be 25-40% cheaper, so I'm not sure the S197 is worth the extra money when I know I'm instantly going to want an exhaust and suspension mods.
Give me the info on both.
what do you want one for?
z31maniac wrote: 01-04 vs 05+ Mustang GT Earlier model nice GTs are getting ridiculously affordable. And even early S197s are popping up in the $15k range for fairly nice examples. I know the S197 has 40hp more, but what about weight? Chassis stiffness? Suspension? I much prefer the looks of the S197, but the earlier models seem to be 25-40% cheaper, so I'm not sure the S197 is worth the extra money when I know I'm instantly going to want an exhaust and suspension mods. Give me the info on both.
S197s weigh more, have a 3V motor (2V in standard SN95 GTs, 4V in most Cobras), and have a stiffer chassis. 3-link comes standard (vs. 4 link in the S95s).
Both are good cars, we'll need more info about your intentions for the car before offering opinions on which ones are the best.
Aggressive DD that will see the AutoX and track day use occasionally.
01-04. You can get a Mach 1 for the price of an 05+ GT. It'll be faster, handle better, look better, and be way cooler. The fox chassis isn't the most advanced in the world but the aftermarket is the largest of any car, period. The 05+ is about 200-400Lbs heavier withe the aero of a brick wall.
I loathe Mustangs and even I'm thinking about 99-04 GT's and 03-04 Mach 1's to replace my RX-7...
If all else fails the 03-04 Cobra can be had pretty close to the same amount...
If this is for DD, I would strongly consider the ergonomics. I bet the '05+ is better.
Miata?
I would get an 03-04 Cobra, any particular reason these are not on your list?
^Price. And they are HEAVY, like nearly 3800lbs if IIRC.
I'd like to stay sub-$10k if possible. That leaves plenty of money to put a killer suspension/wheel package on the car.
05+ no question. The suspension on anything older is pure garbage. 70's era struts up front + quadrabind 4 link in the rear = complete fail.
The S197 suspension is light years better. You'd pour thousands into a SN95 before you even got close. Ford barely changed the Mustang chassis/suspension from 79 to 04. Seriously.
Just curious...why are you getting out of the S52 e30 so soon? Nathan
I want V8 powah!
Also, if I play my cards right over the next few months and find a good deal on a 'Stang, I may be able to keep both. That would be ideal, but I don't know if I'll be able to pull it off.
Soma007, what is different on the front of S197, I thought it was still a MacStrut setup? How is it so much better? As far as the rear is concerned, I was under the impression the main advantage is the torque arm/panhard bar setup, which is readily available for the Fox chassis.
Wouldn't the lighter weight and slightly better aero of the "New Edge" make up for the "superior" suspension?
I had a student recently with a bone-stock 07 V8 and was pretty impressed with the car for what it is... it had great brakes and power but could use some help in the "tossable" department. It is heavy, and it understeers a lot so you have to really throw the rear out for tight turns. Its softly sprung so you wait a long time for transitions and because of that you cannot really use the power until very late in a corner. Being a mustang there is plenty of aftermarket to help cure that so its probably not an issue.
I hate the seats, plastic boombox interior and ergonomics but all of that could probably be fixed with a set of Recaros, a shifter and a garbage can for all the junk plastic trim. At least all that junk wasn't rattling yet. The chassis felt tight as a drum.
In reply to z31maniac:
How do you know the aero is worse on the S197's? Modern cars can be suprisingly slick despite their apperances. Besides aero doesn't mean much unless you're doing triple digit speeds. Also they aren't that much heavier and the extra 40hp makes up for that on the straights and the better suspension will carry it faster in the corners.
The old Fox/SN95 actually has a modifed McPherson strut which Ford took directly off a '79 Fairmont for the Mustang (not joking). Called modified because the spring is mounted inside of the shock which means it needs to be much stiffer than normal. Despite Ford tweaking it over the years the basic geometry is terrible. They actually can handle worse if you lower them due to the roll center dropping and bumpsteer. The S197 geometery is much, much better. A true Mcpherson strut with the springs in the right location.
If the front wasnt bad enough the rear is worse. The stock 4 link does a poor job of locating the axle laterally (side to side) and as the car rolls the suspension binds up more and more until roll stiffness shoots up through the roof at the car snap oversteers. The S197 uses a 3 link rear suspension with a pahnard rod. The 3 link doesn't bind up anything like the 3 link and it has the panhard rod to keep the axle in line laterally.
The Fox/SN95 platforms do have a huge aftermarket. But you have to realize thats because it needs a big aftermarket to fix all its issues since they are so comprimised stock. Chassis and suspension wise they really are the same car from '79 to '04 and 70's era domestic cars are hardly known for their driving dynamics.
I get why it has a huge aftermarket, but if it can be corrected (which I would do) I guess I don't see that as quite the drawback that you do. Especially since it's lighter and MUCH cheaper.
And if I could land a Mach 1, the HP advantage goes out the window as well.
In reply to z31maniac:
Now that I've been messing with cars for a while now I'd much rather just have something that doesn't suck from the factory rather than something I have to spend thousands on out of pocket to "fix". I'd only trust Griggs or Maximum Motorsports stuff if I had one and neither are cheap. Most, if not all, of the inexpensive Mustang suspension parts are cheap Chinese crap.
Do what you want but talk to anyone who's tried to make a Fox or Sn95 turn and I'd bet they'll tell you to start with a S197 too.
^Well I definitely would prefer the S197, just unsure at this point if the cost is worth it. I much prefer everything about it.
I've already been perusing both of their catalogs. After all the headache's with the E30 I'd like to start with something nice and relatively quick. Then just put a nice suspension on it and call it a day.
Seems as though Grigg's entry level kit is right around $3500 for the S197......
z31maniac wrote: ^Price. And they are HEAVY, like nearly 3800lbs if IIRC. I'd like to stay sub-$10k if possible. That leaves plenty of money to put a killer suspension/wheel package on the car.
You'll get much more bang for your buck with an older model. I'd stick with '99 and up to get the PI (performance improved) heads.
I'm no Mustang expert, but here is a 2004 "Roush Package" mustang, with 16k miles for $11,500. Looks nice, but is it special?
http://mcadams-car-co.ebizautos.com/detail-2004-ford-mustang-roush_package-4176231.html
For sale at the dealer I just bought my Legacy at.
It looks like a Roush but I didn't know they made a V6 package.
Thanks for the link, but no V6s here. The only way I'm getting rid of the S52 E30 is to go with more cylinders.
Or maybe boost. But preferably a rumbling V8.
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