In reply to Flynlow (FS) :
This is much better but still to many digital displays, touch screens and crap. I don't even like the touch screen on the Pioneer head unit in my G35. I don't need an infotainment system. I need a basic dash with basic gauges that tell me what the car is doing. I need a HVAC system I can control blindfolded. That's it.
maj75 (Forum Supporter) said:I'll be burning dead dinosaurs till the day I die.
I might be, but I'm also going to own an EV some day, too. The technology has reached a point where it's viable, the performance is just off the charts, the environmental impact is real, and the maintenance is essentially zero.
But it probably won't be a Tesla.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:maj75 (Forum Supporter) said:I'll be burning dead dinosaurs till the day I die.
I might be, but I'm also going to own an EV some day, too. The technology has reached a point where it's viable, the performance is just off the charts, the environmental impact is real, and the maintenance is essentially zero.
But it probably won't be a Tesla.
For me, it will be a while- I'm going to wait until I can lease one for under $200 in 2020 dollars. Which very much implies it won't be a Tesla.
I'd probably have a map on the center screen or live 3D visuals/terrain modeling. Flying at night, I've grown to like a synthetic visual display of what's ahead. I imagine that for marketing to 'kids these days', they put Netflix up in the ad to attract the non-drivers. I just put in a 'Limit Order' to buy more TSLA while it has the earnings drop.
Assuming it's the same UI as the Model 3...
The center screen is split roughly into 1:2 when driving. The right side is a map that shows traffic overlays and navigation. The left is a view of the car showing surrounding traffic and proximity warnings and various stuff picked up by the cameras. YOu also have status information there such as speed and state of charge.
There are a series of icons along the bottom edge of the screen that are permanent. They're basically buttons - just like buttons in every other car, you take a quick glance to make sure you're hitting the right one. Those are all the usual things you'd expect such as wipers, defrost, HVAC and audio. Due to the size of the screen, if you need to go into a menu you will likely be on the first level and even then you're into setup instead of general control. Stuff like how the locks work. The one exception to this is changing audio sources which can be awkward.
There are two multifunction controls on the wheel that are used for audio control, cruise control follow distance/speed and voice control activation.
And yes, there's voice control. I don't use this much other than for nav and asking for a certain song to play, but sometimes I'll also use it for turning on the defrost. But if you want to use the HVAC blindfolded and you can't be bothered with the buttons that are permanently on the bottom edge of the screen (seat heaters, temp, defrosts), that's your option.
I promise I'll do a useability comparison to the E39 M5 one of these days. Short version: anything that's a button on the BMW is a button or button analog on the Tesla. Once you have to start using the screen to control things like nav or any settings, the Tesla is better by a mile.
Keith, the issue I have had in other cars is the 'button analog'. For example, my DD, when using android auto (and only then :( ), the pause button is on the touch screen. I guess you could call this a 'button analog' (although 'digital' seems more appropriate 
). This button drives me insane. Its not easy to push while driving compared to a discrete button that I can operate almost blindly.
With typical button controls, you can feel your way around, and even use the interface to stabilize your hand/fingers - you can't do this with a capacitive touch setup.
I don't mind the giant touchscreen at all. I actually kind of like it. Its clean and simple, and opens up a lot of possibilities. I just think certain things like radio play/pause/stop, volume and hvac on/off/temp/fan/auto should have discrete buttons.
There are a series of icons along the bottom edge of the screen that are permanent. They're basically buttons - just like buttons in every other car, you take a quick glance to make sure you're hitting the right one. Those are all the usual things you'd expect such as wipers, defrost, HVAC and audio.
So those are the things that you can mainly memorize on a conventional car and activate without moving your eyes from the road. Might not be as stylish, but I like having them readily to hand.
The thing is that you never use physical buttons without glancing at them.
All the permanent buttons on the Tesla screen are along the bottom edge. You simply put your fingers on the bottom edge of the screen to stabilize and there's no waving and poking. It is 100% like using a physical button in that regard. And they don't move, so again - like a physical button. You can't play the "I'll bet I can do this with my eyes closed" game where you count over three buttons and try to remember if that's the DSC disable button or the driver side seat heater (not a random example) but you never really do that in real life anyway. You glance and press.
Radio play/pause/stop and volume are also controlled by the physical control on the steering wheel, so that's no different than driving a 20-year-old Jeep. Well, on the Jeep you can't pause because back then there was no such thing as pausing the radio :)
Seriously, you spend just a few days living with this setup and it works very well. It gives the cabin a very airy feeling too.
I get that you look when you use physical buttons, but you don't need to be 100% accurate with your finger. There is a difference between touch and press. You can put your finger on the wrong button, look, then move over to the correct button. I'm just skeptical. I have not driven a Tesla though, so I won't write it off completely. In my experience I have not been able to do this on touch screen cars (or cars that are capacitive touch not-screens (volt) ). Every car I have driven that has moved some crucial radio or HVAC controls to the touchscreen has been problematic for me.
The size of the virtual buttons is big enough, combined with the ability to locate your hand on the bottom bezel of the screen, that it's hard to miss. I haven't hit the wrong one yet.
Again, the most problematic area continues to be the audio system like it is in almost any modern car that has to deal with something more complex than a CD player. Once something is playing, no problem. But changing sources is messier. I haven't tried the voice control much there. I do find it amusing that the on-screen volume control is on the passenger's side of the screen while the driver has a steering wheel control so you can get into spousal fights more easily :)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:For me, it will be a while- I'm going to wait until I can lease one for under $200 in 2020 dollars. Which very much implies it won't be a Tesla.
I'm kind of half-assed planning on replacing the Fusion with a Mach E in 2-3 years. By then the bugs should be worked out and the charging network will be more built out. It will become my wife's daily and I'll take over the Expedition. She does a lot more driving than I do these days, but it's all 5-30 mile round trips in town. The Expedition is wholly unsuited for that kind of duty, but an EV would be perfect.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I completely dissagree with the "you never use a button without looking". Most particularly the wipers and washers need to be operable with a single finger sticking off the steering wheel. In both of my cars I can operate the wipers that way, and the HVAC controls are on the center stack, but totally workable by feel. Niether has any audio system, I listen to my cars.
Keith Tanner said:The thing is that I never use physical buttons without glancing at them.
Fixed that for you because your version could not be more wrong.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:For me, it will be a while- I'm going to wait until I can lease one for under $200 in 2020 dollars. Which very much implies it won't be a Tesla.
I'm kind of half-assed planning on replacing the Fusion with a Mach E in 2-3 years. By then the bugs should be worked out and the charging network will be more built out. It will become my wife's daily and I'll take over the Expedition. She does a lot more driving than I do these days, but it's all 5-30 mile round trips in town. The Expedition is wholly unsuited for that kind of duty, but an EV would be perfect.
When all of our leases end in 2 more years, this pandemic has shown that our plan on reducing the fleet will work. So the one vehicle left will have to be able to tow 3500lb whever we want to go. And it will need to be chargable at campgrounds.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:Keith Tanner said:The thing is that I never use physical buttons without glancing at them.
Fixed that for you because your version could not be more wrong.
We had a member here who used to do UI work for Honda IIRC. And that's what their research found - they sent me a copy. You don't think you look, but you look.
To squirt the windshield on a Tesla, you press the windshield squirt button on the end of one of the stalks. The cars still have stalks :) So it's just like 95% of cars on the road. I don't remember if there's a single swipe, it doesn't rain all that often here.
I struggle with a "simple" cell phone, how am I supposed to figure out a complex computer at 75mph when I desperately need to turn on the wipers or defroster?
How does this big, bright screen affect night vision? I ll assume it dimms and brightens, an added distraction.
With range always a concern in electric cars, why do manufacturers keep adding more things that use power vs a second simple mechanical system that doesn't?
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:For me, it will be a while- I'm going to wait until I can lease one for under $200 in 2020 dollars. Which very much implies it won't be a Tesla.
I'm kind of half-assed planning on replacing the Fusion with a Mach E in 2-3 years. By then the bugs should be worked out and the charging network will be more built out. It will become my wife's daily and I'll take over the Expedition. She does a lot more driving than I do these days, but it's all 5-30 mile round trips in town. The Expedition is wholly unsuited for that kind of duty, but an EV would be perfect.
When all of our leases end in 2 more years, this pandemic has shown that our plan on reducing the fleet will work. So the one vehicle left will have to be able to tow 3500lb whever we want to go. And it will need to be chargable at campgrounds.
Charging at campgrounds is a solved problem thanks to the big RV people. Rent a spot with a big fat electrical pipe, plug in using your portable charger. Should be possible with any EV.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:I struggle with a "simple" cell phone, how am I supposed to figure out a complex computer at 75mph when I desperately need to turn on the wipers or defroster?
How does this big, bright screen affect night vision? I ll assume it dimms and brightens, an added distraction.
PRESS BUTTON, SAY "TURN ON DEFROSTER".
or
PRESS THE DEFROSTER ICON THAT HAS BEEN IN THE SAME PLACE SINCE THE FIRST TIME YOU SAT IN THE CAR.
Seriously. I would suggest you look around any car to learn where basic controls are before blasting out on the interstate at 75 mph in bad weather, no matter what the interface is.
Wipers are the same - also, the car has rain sensing so it'll turn them on for you.
Big bright screen dims like every other screen in a car and goes to dark mode when it's dark, not a problem with night vision.
Not sure I'm on board with that new wheel, but I've never driven with it so I'd just be a random internet commenter making assumptions without knowledge. So I'm limiting my comments to actual experience of over a year with the primary interface. I do see the new S/X interior has a secondary screen in front of the driver for gauges. Coolant temp...no wait. Oil pressure...no. Transmission temp...well, speed and state of charge anyhow.
Part of me wants analog controls for HVAC, but then I think about the automatic system in my 2017 Grand Caravan and realize I might touch those controls once a month. Maybe. It's set to 70 deg and that's it. Summer. Winter. Doesn't matter. Sometimes I use the analog knob for stereo volume control, but often I just use the steering wheel controls. There are analog buttons for the seat and steering wheel heat, but they are low on the console and I have to look for them. As long as I could assign some desired controls to an "always there" tool bar on the bottom of the touch screen so I wouldn't have to go scrolling through menus for them, being on the screen wouldn't be a drastic change - and with practice might be an improvement.
As far as the new Model S interior appearance... I don't mind the steering wheel. And for colors, a little bit of wood trim would go a long way and I can definitely see that being an option based on what I've seen in previous models.
In the grand scheme of automotive items to be annoyed about, this ain't one of them.
Keith Tanner said:Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:Keith Tanner said:The thing is that I never use physical buttons without glancing at them.
Fixed that for you because your version could not be more wrong.
We had a member here who used to do UI work for Honda IIRC. And that's what their research found - they sent me a copy. You don't think you look, but you look.
To squirt the windshield on a Tesla, you press the windshield squirt button on the end of one of the stalks. The cars still have stalks :) So it's just like 95% of cars on the road. I don't remember if there's a single swipe, it doesn't rain all that often here.
I'm glad you like your buttonless world, that you just said you can find without looking while also stating that everyone else can't hit an actual button without looking at it. Keith, I think you are a great guy, but frequently you are much like talking to a post. 
I didn't say you can find virtual buttons without looking. You look no matter what kind of button it is. But if the virtual button is always in the same place, you don't have to go hunting for it.
Now if they randomly changed positions, that would be a problem.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I am not here to change anyone's mind, but please give them a chance if it ever comes up. Especially if you can have one for a few days.
As I mentioned above, I been driving Model Y for 2 weeks now. I borrowed it from a friend in order to see whether my wife would like a Tesla as a replacement for her current car. The things I noted:
- I did not like the no buttons at first. I am sold now.
- regen braking. I hated it the first day, no its amazing.
- you cannot judge these cars after driving them for an hour. You have to live with them for a few days.
- the speed!!
I agree with the statements Keith made. You really do not need the screen at all, and if you do everything is easy to find + its way bigger and closer than anything else.
The wiper will do a couple of swipes if you press the button at the end of the stalk.
The temperature, you never change. And if you do, its simple on the screen or just say "73 degrees". Done. The messed up thing is routing the air to the proper place as the vents are controlled from the screen.
If you have not spent a few days with a Tesla and have the opportunity do not pass it up. Worst case, you say "I was right this sucks". Best case, you will spend everyday building a new car on the website like me and thinking how to get rid of all your cars.
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