I really like Teslas but.......

Appleseed said:

I'd need autopilot,  because that "interior" would put me to sleep.  

let's be honest, how many people look at the interior of their car while driving?  Except for the gages and an occasional stab at the radio, how the interior looks while I am going down the road means nothing.  Stopped is a different matter.

someone that owns a Tesla, and uses the buttons. people that don't own a Tesla, and have never touched the Tesla buttons. Yet will argue against the tesla as if they know. I don't understand. I like the idea of physical buttons, but I also said the same thing about a qwerty keyboard on a phone 10 years ago. Just because its what you know doesn't mean its the only way. 

I'm also amused how tesla comes out with a 1.99 second car, and the conversation turns into, but the buttons! the fastest 0-60 time for a production car EVER. 

I have two non-Tesla electric cars (and two ICE cars).

2013 Fiat 500e - Mostly my wife's car.  She initially bought it for her 70 mile round trip commute from one side of Los Angeles to the other.  The fact that she could use the carpool lane dropped 30-45 minutes off her commute, even though it was only for a short portion of her drive.  The car had just enough juice to make it to work and back from a full charge with about 20% to spare.  Plus, there are chargers at her work so if she needed to go somewhere else during the day or not go straight home, she could charge during the day.

2016 VW eGolf - This is mostly my commuter car but is going to be handed off to my son soon when he gets his license.  I only have a 18 mile commute to work so the eGolf is perfect for that.  

One of the things the wife and I were looking for when it came to electrics was an electric car that didn't look like an electric car.  This also meant that the interiors were relatively conventional and I love that about both cars.  I don't think there is a real difference on the inside vs. the ICE cars.  Buttons and all that are the same.

My biggest gripe with the computerized interiors are not necessarily the way they are set up but the fact that since everything is computerized, that factory can mess with settings if they want to.  I have heard stories of people who have purchased Teslas with Autopilot secondhand but have had their autopilot mysteriously removed because it only works for the original owner of the car.  I've watched some videos on Rich Rebuilds and he talks about owners of salvaged Teslas having supercharger access denied (although I think they eventually reverted that one back).  It just freaks me out that a company can start removing features of the car at will while you are sleeping and the vehicle is sitting in the garage.

With that said, my two brothers in law both own Teslas and they are truly badass cars and the interiors definitely appeal to my minimalist aesthetic .  If I was going electric as my only car, I'd definitely consider one simply because of Supercharger access.  (Un?)Fortunately I have my R56 Mini and my Honda Odyssey to keep me occupied.

I can understand why Tesla wouldn't want to let a destroyed car plug into a massive high power charger without some sort of oversight on if it was repaired properly. 

As for transferring licenses, that is definitely an area for exciting discussion and I don't necessarily agree that the license is non-transferrable when you sell the car. But if a car has been deemed non-repairable and then some random dude wants to plug the cobbled-together remains into my charging station? I would decline.

mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:

Appleseed said:

I'd need autopilot,  because that "interior" would put me to sleep.  

let's be honest, how many people look at the interior of their car while driving?  Except for the gages and an occasional stab at the radio, how the interior looks while I am going down the road means nothing.  Stopped is a different matter.

"I don't want distractions"
"I don't need in-car entertainment, I listen to my car"
"I will fall asleep if the interior is not full of shiny things"  

:D
Just goes to show you can't please any of the people any of the time.

lnlogauge said:

someone that owns a Tesla, and uses the buttons. people that don't own a Tesla, and have never touched the Tesla buttons. Yet will argue against the tesla as if they know. I don't understand. I like the idea of physical buttons, but I also said the same thing about a qwerty keyboard on a phone 10 years ago. Just because its what you know doesn't mean its the only way. 

I'm also amused how tesla comes out with a 1.99 second car, and the conversation turns into, but the buttons! the fastest 0-60 time for a production car EVER. 

 

Tesla threads on GRM never fail.

It tickles me how touchy some people get about cars getting less touchy. 

I spent a week with a model S. First day or so was an adjustment but after that I loved it. 

And yes, your brain causes you too look at buttons when you go to press them while driving. You may think it doesn't, but it does. Your brain does a lot with your eyes that you don't "notice". Let's not be so against change that we become illogical and ignorant of biological functions. 

Anyway, I'd take a model X. Unfortunately, the Taycan exist and I love that thang. If Porsche  makes an electric Cayenne, other than money, nothing will keep me from getting it.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

For me, it will be a while- I'mgoing to wait until I can  one for under $200 in 2020 dollars.  Which very much implies it won't be a Tesla.

I am hoping to lease the Mazda MX30 in 2022. 

Eww.... But as long as I can still reach the loud ped- oh. Bummer. I do like the quiet interior, although it would be interesting to see if they could find a way to use even more black. Wheel looks terrible for daily use. I am with Mazda in that I don't believe a driver should interface with a touchscreen while operating a vehicle. Maybe once they're able to force drivers out of the equation...

I should probably pay attention to all this stuff but the thought of owning an electric car helped me see the virtue of looking at cars as appliances. 

I survived when dimmer switches and other light controls moved from the floor and the dashboard to the stalks. I'll probably be OK if they move somewhere else.

I'm less sure about the steering wheel.  I don't really like butterfly wheels in cars that only have 1 turn lock to lock or less and you never change your hand position. I really doubt that I'd warm up to it in a street car.

I did an experiment on the way home. Tried to adjust the temperature without looking. I could not. 

I am sure if you had a dial it would be easier ...

You can certainly do it with a dial, although that still isn't precise.  Old slider-style HVAC is great for operating blindly.  How many of us have owned a car with these where the bulbs were burnt out and you couldn't see it at night anyway :)

What Keith said regarding looking is true though, you always look before touching, regardless of control type.  Even if you think you don't.  

I would love to see data on touch controls vs. buttons on how long the driver typically looks.

In reply to ProDarwin :

In my '72 GT6, the heater/vent controls are not lit at all and never were.  One of my plans is to fit the bezel from a later Spitfire which did have a small light in the bezel to slightly illuminate the controls.

ProDarwin said:

I would love to see data on touch controls vs. buttons on how long the driver typically looks.

That would definitely be interesting. I'll bet the OEs know. 

So I gotta wonder, is the "Plaid" version harken to the classic movie "Spaceballs" where the ship goes to plaid when it goes too fast?

Keith Tanner said:

ProDarwin said:

I would love to see data on touch controls vs. buttons on how long the driver typically looks.

That would definitely be interesting. I'll bet the OEs know. 

Physical buttons are easier to manipulate if the ride is bumpy.

As for looking at the buttons -- if you use the controls often enough then you don't have to look at them.  I don't use the HVAC controls that often, so yeah, I probably glance at them.  I definitely don't look at the stereo volume knob, track forward/backward buttons, turn signal stalks, or anything like that.

Do you touch type, or do you look down at the keyboard for every letter?  Can you touch type on a virtual keyboard that's being displayed on an iPad screen?  I suspect the answers are "yes" and "no" (they certainly are for me), so think about why not.  It's the same principle.

stukndapast said:

So I gotta wonder, is the "Plaid" version harken to the classic movie "Spaceballs" where the ship goes to plaid when it goes too fast?

Yes. Musk has all kinds of easter eggs in his products.

stukndapast said:

So I gotta wonder, is the "Plaid" version harken to the classic movie "Spaceballs" where the ship goes to plaid when it goes too fast?

You mean like Ludicrous speed?

stukndapast said:

So I gotta wonder, is the "Plaid" version harken to the classic movie "Spaceballs" where the ship goes to plaid when it goes too fast?

Absolutely. The go-fast mode on the previous cars is called "Ludicrous".

I wonder if Tesla has to pay Mel Brooks a royalty?

Well, they did have to change the icon for the Sentinel program from HAL 9000 to something generic because someone forgot to ask MGM...

I drove the M5 this evening and spent some time thinking about controls. The M5 has a Sport button (the first!) that may be the button I use the most often, but that's because it defaults to OFF and I have to turn it on every time. The Tesla has an equivalent setting that lets me sportify the steering and the acclerator individually, but it's two screen taps to get to it. BUT it remembers me and that I like maximum sporty while my wife prefers a mellower setup, so it's always set the way we like it. Which one is better? A button that's easy to access, or a setting you rarely need to adjust? I think the only time I've tweaked the Tesla's sport settings was when we were driving in a mountain snowstorm and I told it to chill out. Seriously, "chill" is a throttle setting.

The BMW's DSC is easy to turn off, but that's good because it's frankly awful. I don't think you can turn off the Tesla's torque vectoring but you wouldn't want to because it's a big reason of why the car is such a good dancer. 

Personalized settings on the BMW are the seat and mirror positions. You can save them to one of four buttons, so you get in and push your button if someone else was driving. There's a fifth button for "save". Meanwhile, the Tesla recognizes who's driving by the key or the phone used as a key and sets itself. If you make changes (seat adjustments are 100% conventional with buttons on the seat), it automatically saves it. So there are five buttons that just aren't needed in the Tesla at all. And yes, you can change the selected driver with a permanent icon on the screen.

The BMW wins on mirror adjustment - it's a little weird in the Tesla, you tap the screen (once to open the menu, once to say "mirrors") and then the steering wheel controls run the mirrors. Similarly the steering wheel. Not that I've adjusted them since I set them because it's saved as part of the personalization, but it's definitely less convenient. Folding the mirrors for parking is a dedicated button on the BMW, happens automatically when the car locks or parks at home on the Tesla. Again, there is a screen override if you want to unfold the mirrors for some reason, like washing them.

The Tesla wins on defrost - the BMW makes me turn on the AC separately if I want that, the Tesla is one button tap for cold defrost and a second for hot. Two taps in the same place trumps two separate buttons. Heated seats are exactly the same. Fan control and temp control, exactly the same. Aiming the vents in the Tesla is easy but weird, you slide your finger up and down on the screen after tapping the fan icon. It works, but it's some sort of black magic voodoo.

Nav is no contest, a big touchscreen backed up by voice control is far better than twisting and pushing a knob to spell things out level by level. Trying to set a destination in the BMW takes time and patience and cannot legitimately be done while driving. I'm not even sure it lets you. And after owning this car for about a decade, I STILL twist that knob the wrong way 75% of the time.

Audio controls are a wash, I think - the BMW has a bunch of buttons for things like CD selection in the changer which you don't need anymore but it's easier to select FM, both have controls on the steering wheel. Voice control is good here. I don't have the phone for the BMW (it would have been analog) so I can't compare that experience. There sure are a lot of buttons that seem to be associated with the BMW phone, though, I have no idea what some of them do. One has a clock icon. 

Cruise control is about five buttons on the steering wheel on the BMW with no indication of set speed. Cruise on the Tesla is a nudge on the stalk and then a steering wheel roller dial for speed with a side nudge to adjust following distance. I'd call that a bit of a wash - the interface on the Tesla is about as easy to use but the cruise itself is a different type so the controls are different. The buttons are a lot more obvious to newbies on the BMW - they're in the exact same spot as the Tesla controls, but they're all labeled individual buttons so you see them easily.

Homelink is automatic on the Tesla, uses a button in the BMW. Again, is it more convenient to have the car just do it or to use a button? There is a permanent override icon on the screen if you want, which is less convenient but is rarely used.

Almost all of the permanent icons on the Tesla are on the bottom of the screen with about three on the top. In all cases, you can stabilize your poking hand easily. In the BMW, this is often not the case, there are buttons all over and some have you floating in space.

Wipers are basically left to full auto on the Tesla all the time, with the opportunity to override for swipes. Changing to a different set speed is two taps on the screen (permanent icon, then new speed). Honestly, we live in the desert so I can't say how annoying this might be. We just leave them turned on. We can do the same for the BMW.

I'll have to spend more time looking at some of the other settings for the Tesla like headlights, a lot of those systems are automatic so you just let the car take care of it. I do the same in the BMW - it makes its own decisions on headlights and I've never had to second-guess either. I think that's part of the key with the Tesla interface and simplicity, the car handles a lot of stuff on its own. Not driving stuff, but housekeeping like headlights and wipers and heat and folding mirrors and opening/closing the garage door. 

The big difference?  Other than a handful on the nav system that are complete mysteries to me (there are at least three buttons with icons that are basically <  > and only one of them seems to do anything) it's pretty easy to figure out how to do what you want to do in the BMW if you've never been in it before because every button is a single function and it has a label. Not always a useful label (find the recirc button in Slippery's photos above), but something.  If it's not a permanent icon on the Tesla, it takes a little longer to learn the interface for settings. But you quickly learn that pretty much any of the controls you use regularly are right there, just as convenient as before.

Sorry, that was long. But interface design has been an interest of mine for a long time and Janel won't listen to me anymore :)

The one thing I found weird on the Tesla is that to turn on the rear seat heaters, you have to do it from the screen. The rear seat occupants do not have a say in that. 

Also, the car stays pretty cool in the Florida heat, even with that huge glass roof. I am sure in the middle of the summer it will not be as nice. I think it keeps the air moving inside while parked, to keep a constant temperature. When you get in there is no need to mess with the hvac settings. 

Rainbow road is pretty cool too. 

Slippery (Forum Supporter) said:

The one thing I found weird on the Tesla is that to turn on the rear seat heaters, you have to do it from the screen. The rear seat occupants do not have a say in that. 

Also, the car stays pretty cool in the Florida heat, even with that huge glass roof. I am sure in the middle of the summer it will not be as nice. I think it keeps the air moving inside while parked, to keep a constant temperature. When you get in there is no need to mess with the hvac settings. 

Yeah, that is a little odd with the rear seat heaters. Would have been good to give that control to the occupants. However, they do get to control their own vent direction :)

The AC is better than the heater in the 3, both more efficient and more powerful. It does limit the Max temp partly to protect the screen - the ND Miata screen goes into a limited use mode when parked in the sun. That's inconvenient in the Miata but would be a real problem in the Tesla. I left ours outside all day in 100f heat and it used 20 miles of range to keep the interior cool. The Y has a heat pump so I don't know what the heater is like there. 

ProDarwin said:

What Keith said regarding looking is true though, you always look before touching, regardless of control type.  Even if you think you don't.  

I look if its visible. On my e30 almost all the HVAC lights are burnt out and I'm way too lazy to change them. I adjust them in the dark all the time. But, if it's visible I definitely look even though I know exactly how to manipulate it. Hrm. Actually. I wonder if I look at the dark dash even then. I'm going to see if I can recognize myself looking at that...

In reply to iansane :

The thing with the e30 is that its very intuitive and archaic. You have two dials, one for speed and one for temperature. Then the 3 levers for direction ... that's it.

My e30 lights are burnt as well ... I probably still look.