I remember when you could buy a 10-15 y.o. 911 for $15K

Will we one day say that about 996's?

Example: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/4294750778.html

Or are they destined to depreciate forever into the most hated 911 ever?

As a non Porsche purist, I can't help but see these cars as both really neat in their general shape and "911ness", but also as an attractive track day weekend toy at an attainable price point. It would seem a set of race buckets / harness and a nice suspension setup/pads, and you have a shiny streetable trackable sporty car.

Yeah it's water cooled. So what. Yeah the Carrera is the non kitted "base" model. It still comes with a manual trans. It still looks like a 911 to 95% of the public. They make ~300HP or more depending on year, nothing to sneeze at in my book. A little more low and a little more wheel and I think they look fantastic:

What am I missing?

Build quality.....although the silver one you linked above seems to be in very good condition for its price.

Normally in that price range they have rock chips everywhere, yellowed headlamps, and some interior issues. That one is either hiding all of those or it is legitimately a clean example for a good price.

Is this one of those cars that you can afford to buy but probably not maintain? What do these things cost to run? What breaks, and how much will that cost?

I would like one for a winter car.

I would put them in the same camp as BMW/Audi. If you couldn't afford it when it was new, you can't afford it now. If you can do the majority of maintenance and repair on your own, different story.

The original owner probably only had payments to worry about. The next owner(s) have a smaller monthly payment, but much higher maintenance costs. Those costs aren't usually spread out over a 12 month period either.

There are some issues with that generation, but if you do your research, you can find a good car for a reasonable amount of money.

I just purchased a 2004 with 42,000 miles for $30,000. A little on the high side, but it came from a reputable dealer, has been locally owned and serviced. If the 1999 is in good shape, and an independent PPI shows it as clean, go for it!

yamaha wrote: Build quality.....although the silver one you linked above seems to be in very good condition for its price.

Its not build quality in a sense though... its the fact that the motor will ABSOLUTELY NEED A REBUILD. And to get it done by a shop is f*&king nuts amounts of money.

I am praying they depreciate just the "smallest" amount more. If I could get one for $10k with a blown motor (awd of course), I'd drop it off at the shop that GRM highlighted that does the V8 conversion. $30k awd porsche DD with LSX reliability and mpg. Win Win!

I wasn't aware of the engine issues, but I haven't been around the newer ones very much(just a few occasions behind the wheel)

HiTempguy wrote: Its not build quality in a sense though... its the fact that the motor will ABSOLUTELY NEED A REBUILD. And to get it done by a shop is f*&king nuts amounts of money.

Do you say this from experience or from internet lore?

What's the actual failure percentage rate on IMS issue? Is there no GRM/DIY "fix" for this? No preventative mods?

I've pined for a 996 ever since they first started getting cheap, but I had a Porsche mechanic warn me about the maintenance and consumables cost of the 996 and newer 911's. In his opinion, the Boxster/Cayman twins would be significantly cheaper to own.

Isn't it still plausible to get a 964 in this price range?

If you're thinking affordable Porsche there is always a 928. There was one advertised for $3500. "or trade for bass boat" in our local community newspaper not that long ago. But I'm sure they're not cheap to repair or restore.

TR8owner wrote: If you're thinking affordable Porsche there is always a...

But there's a difference between an "affordable Porsche", and "an affordable 911"

A friend of mine got an '81 928 for about $5k, came with parts car, but it's been pretty reliable for a few years. Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

Swank Force One wrote: Isn't it still plausible to get a 964 in this price range?

I did a year ago.........

964s have gone up, too. I know prices tend to be higher out West, but I'd budget at least $20k for a good one, and I haven't seen many good ones out here either.

The problem with 911s isn't that you can't find cheaper ones, but that you'll pretty much end up dumping the difference and then some into the car.

Swank Force One wrote: Isn't it still plausible to get a 964 in this price range?

Not unless you want one without a engine.

alex wrote: Is this one of those cars that you can afford to buy but probably not maintain? What do these things cost to run? What breaks, and how much will that cost?

General running costs aren't too bad. Of course consumables aren't exactly cheap, so it's not like you're maintaining a Miata and go-faster bits aren't cheap either, but at the end of the day you have a very competent car that doesn't need a lot of mods to be good on the track and for spirited driving.

If E36 M3 breaks, it'll get really expensive (especially compared to the value of the car) really quickly, especially if you have to pay someone to help fix it. The elephant in the room with the regular 3.4L 996 is the engine - if you get a good one you're golden, if you get a bad one and you didn't get the car cheap enough you'll be very sorry you bought one (and decidedly poorer).

wearymicrobe wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Isn't it still plausible to get a 964 in this price range?

Not unless you want one without a engine.

There's enough space for a 13B in the back .

TR8owner wrote: If you're thinking affordable Porsche there is always a 928. There was one advertised for $3500. "or trade for bass boat" in our local community newspaper not that long ago. But I'm sure they're not cheap to repair or restore.

They're anything but cheap to repair. Unless you get a really good one, they can be hair-raisingly expensive to maintain. I haven't done the sums but I wouldn't be surprised if a 928 is actually more expensive to maintain and repair than a pre-964 911.

wearymicrobe wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Isn't it still plausible to get a 964 in this price range?

Not unless you want one without a engine.

So... they went up sharply and recently? I was looking about a year ago when i first realized i didn't want the MSM anymore, and it was pretty plausible to get into a Carerra 2 coupe (the only one i'd want) with very little money out of my pocket after selling the MSM.

The RS America went straight stupid between one and two years ago. They're priced out of the range where you can get one and drive it. Really good 964's got expensive then too. Talking low mileage concourse type cars. A LOT of the rougher ones went to the track in the last 15 years. I don't think it's so much that the price went up a lot, but the supply of mid range drivers seems to have dried up. They're just sort of not for sale. If you're willing to travel and are a bit brave, you can probably find a decent $18-20k car. I'm very very happy I jumped on mine when I did and I can hear the grumbling and mild cursing from GPS every time I talk about how great the car is.

I hate threads like these...

Off to go read up on Porsches, 911's, and generally lust after one .

Had a friend lose the motor in his 996, even tho it had the LN Engineering IMS fix done. Some of those motors can suffer catastrophic cylinder wall failure...

I'm looking at the same era Boxsters, and I'm well familiar with the engine failures.

They're getting cheap enough that an engine failure doesn't kill the deal. Swap in a 3.4 liter engine after the 2.5 blows, and you're still under 12,000 dollars in the car...

I will be publishing something regarding 964 and 993 values in the very short term. I'll be sure to link it back here when I'm done.