On a different note, I was shocked at how well the classic car handled the accident!! I would have assumed a modern car would have completely crumpled the back end up to the driver's back, but the newer car was actually launched in the air. Granted, the slope back caused the launch, but I still wouldn't have expected that to happen.
-Rob
Morgan pulled out at 0:09, got hit at 0:11 or 0:12. 0 - 60 times, how fast could he have been going after two seconds and what is the line of sight left of the camera? Maybe that was his best shot.
Ample room and opportunity for avoidance.
914Driver wrote: Ample room and opportunity for avoidance.
Yes. For the asshat driver of the classic car.
The video won't play for me, but I lost two hours clicking around the site. Thanks for introducing me to that waste of time.
In reply to z31maniac:
I'm not taking any blame away from the Morgan driver. Not at all.
I'm saying the other guy certainly could have easily avoided the collision. It still would have been a huge oh E36 M3 moment but with less crumpled sheet metal.
Honestly though I feel both drivers should not be in possession of licenses.
z31maniac wrote:Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Seems to me he had plenty of time to turn the wheel. That's all it would have taken, just rotate that big round thing in front of you a little bit, no brakes necessary. Listen to how long he was in the horn, he had plenty of time to do something. The only thing I can't tell do to the vantage point the video was shot is if the Morgan driver, in an effort to get out of the way, turned into the path of the other car if he did attempt to move to the left. They are only painted lines on the road folks, you can physically cross then in order to avoid a collision.Again, for some reason you guys are expecting the general public constantly looking at their cellphones, playing with the radio, eating, putting on makeup, to be able to perform successful evasive maneuvers. This is what I find amusing. Whether they should be to is not the point, it's that I count on everyone on the road being a complete moron that is actively trying to kill me. And classic car driver is a perfect example of a complete moron in which his actions are not defensible in anyway, because people think Senna was in the hatchback and could have or should have missed him.
I expect the general public to watch the road. I count on them not.
Classic car could easily be athe fault too. If the road was any sort of flat, he saw the lately model cannonball. Chose to go anyway.
z31maniac wrote:APEowner wrote: That was some horrible driving by both parties. There's no question that the driver that pulled out was legally at fault but the other driver had plenty of options for avoiding the crash. Ranging from slowing down when approaching an intersection with a whole bunch of people standing around to using some of the other controls at their disposal besides the horn button.So you slow down if people are in a parking lot on the other side of a divided highway?
If there's a crowd of people standing around at the intersection and a line of cars trying to pull out I sure do. I may not slow down significantly but I lift and cover the brake while looking for hazards and escape routes. I've seen too many accidents that could have easily been avoided if someone had just slowed down when there was something out of the ordinary going on to not.
accordionfolder wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Preach! I also like reading comments that assume you can't push the brakes and the horn simultaneously or that the reaction of hitting the horn isn't just entirely instinctual as a "please move!!!" i.e. https://youtu.be/ny01_mvJyjA /\ I'm pretty sure this guy wasn't like: "I'll lay on the horn, that'll save me." I've had plenty of panic stops where it was all I could do to slam the brakes (without even thinking) - If I hadn't been in a car with ABS they would have definitely been lit up.
I'm sure that the horn was instinctual in both the original video and this one. My point is that it shouldn't be. How does hitting the horn become an ingrained instinct? Generally the reactions under panic conditions are the same actions that have become ingrained under normal conditions. If one's reaction to someone pulling out in front of them is to hit the horn while driving straight at them then that's pretty much what they're going to do all of the time. A better habit is to slow down as much as is needed while watching for and steer towards openings in case slowing down isn't going to be enough.
In the original video, even if we give the driver the benefit of the doubt and assume that he had just come up over a rise that blocked the view of intersection so they couldn't see the situation developing until the last moment there was plenty of room for them to go around on either side.
In the second video the S2000 driver clearly wasn't paying attention until quite late in the game. Had he been he could have avoided the accident without any driving heroics.
In both of these incidents it's obvious that the crossing vehicle was at fault legally and morally. I'm not defending their actions at all. What I am saying is that both of crashes could have been avoided by the other driver with a little more vigilance and in the case of the first one better actual driving skills.
I've worked accident scenes as a first responder with the fire company and as a tow truck driver and I've watched crash videos online. I've also screwed up and been in some accidents myself(thankfully not for a couple of decades and half a million miles). In all of those cases I try and see if there's something I can take away and apply to my own driving that might make me safer. For me, the lessons here are, don't pull out in front of people, don't run red lights, watch out for weird stuff around crowds of people (particularly at intersections) and watch out for red light runners.
mndsm wrote: I also think that people that stop in the median are insane, but that's me.
You obviously do not drive around here. If you do not stop in the median, you will NEVER get across. Waiting till both lanes are empty in NJ is a futile endeavor unless it is 2am, and even then I am sure you are going to wait a few minutes.
Fault is entirely on the Morgan. He'll have plenty of time to consider his mistake, as he rebuilds the ass end of his car. He may also want to consider adding some HP.
APEowner wrote: How does hitting the horn become an ingrained instinct?
Easy. By repetition of successful past minor accident avoidance using horn to alert other (inattentive) drivers to a folly they are about to make, while also braking. While blowing the horn will not physically prevent an accident, it is a car-to-car communication device that will more often than not (when combined with stomping the brake pedal) result in a near-miss when used as situations begin to develop. Unfortunately, that's the fullest extent their government sanctioned hands-on training covered. So at that point their muscle memory simply locks up.
I'm not sure about Britain, but our drivers education system certainly does absolutely nothing to prepare, let alone maintain, people for emergency avoidance maneuvering. If their experiences and training have never gone past that point where the horn (and/or dumb luck) is not enough though, let alone getting to the point of ingraining the 'correct' response, what else would you expect their natural reaction to be when such a critical situation actually arises?
In eighteen years of driving I have never actually used a car horn, other than to test it to make sure it works. Even in situations where a horn probably should have been used, it doesn't even occur to me until well after the avoidance operation is completed and I'm far from the danger. By then is to late for the horn.
Maybe rear ender guy was getting his cell phone out to get a picture of the Morgan when he rear ended him?
Hey - sweet old car.
I don't know if it has been mentioned but the morgan is a very small car and looked to go into the shadow making it all that much harder to see. I am betting the morgan driver is use to the acceleration of his "normal" car. I have had this happen when I go from one of my cars to another. I have something that does 0-60 in the low 5 seconds then to my other car that uses a sun dial to measure 0-60 times.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: In eighteen years of driving I have never actually used a car horn, other than to test it to make sure it works. Even in situations where a horn probably should have been used, it doesn't even occur to me until well after the avoidance operation is completed and I'm far from the danger. By then is to late for the horn.
I got into a fight about that last year when I got the p71 inspected. Clock spring $140, plus a horn. Horn, wiring, button $26.
"But you have the horn over by the trunk release, you'll go to hit the horn and pop your trunk" no dude, just no. I yell, rev, and drive away/around. I don't use my horn, but law says I need one.
Although it is strange going into a normal car and not getting an instant reaction when I yell at someone like when I'm in the miata.
Is it just me, or did the guy in the Morgan seem like he didn't even notice getting hit?
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: In eighteen years of driving I have never actually used a car horn, other than to test it to make sure it works. Even in situations where a horn probably should have been used, it doesn't even occur to me until well after the avoidance operation is completed and I'm far from the danger. By then is to late for the horn.
I have only ever used mine to beep to a friend or to gently remind a texting driver that the light has gone green
mad_machine wrote:Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: In eighteen years of driving I have never actually used a car horn, other than to test it to make sure it works. Even in situations where a horn probably should have been used, it doesn't even occur to me until well after the avoidance operation is completed and I'm far from the danger. By then is to late for the horn.I have only ever used mine to beep to a friend or to gently remind a texting driver that the light has gone green
I use mine a lot. Then again, I'm on the road a lot. If you are behind the wheel, and in la la land, I'll happily wake you up. Texters don't get gentle reminders.
Was the next video for anyone else "Guy puts worlds hottest pepper extract in girlfriend's thong"?
or is my google search history just that dirty and morbid?
mad_machine wrote:mndsm wrote: I also think that people that stop in the median are insane, but that's me.You obviously do not drive around here. If you do not stop in the median, you will NEVER get across. Waiting till both lanes are empty in NJ is a futile endeavor unless it is 2am, and even then I am sure you are going to wait a few minutes.
Nope, never driven in jersey.
mndsm wrote: I'm really curious what an actual forensic accident whatever would say.
Well, from my end, I'm putting it in the 60/40 to 70/30 ballpark on the Morgan. It clearly failed to yield the right of way to oncoming traffic in the lane which it was trying to enter. From what I could see in the video, nothing would have been obstructing the view for the Morgan driver, and it seemed clear to me he was trying to "beat" the other car and get ahead of it. However, the other car had last clear chance to avoid the accident. They should have clearly seen the Morgan as it was pulling into the median and it was clear that the Morgan intended to go into that lane. They could have started to slow earlier and/or anticipated they were going to pull out. The one piece I don't know is what the speed limit is...that would factor in. Either way, moronic move by the Morgan driver.
In reply to Klayfish:
Thanks. I was genuinely curious.
In reply to Hungary Bill:
It's a solid list of videos no matter who logs on or what your past search history may be.
I try not to post videos from NSFW sites but since we're all adults, I figured it'd be ok.
But Wimp.com is totally family friendly and I normally try to use them for videos such as this.
I'm in the "Both were berkeley-nut drivers" camp. The Brit shouldn't have pulled out, the VW could have missed it.
This is what happens when an unstoppable stupidity collides with an unmoveable idiocy.
Fault is 100% the Morgans fault. We can't see how long the other car was possibly on the brakes before entering the frame. I'm putting zero blame on the other guy, there just wasn't really time to for any normal driver (I'm including 99% of us here in that as well) to miss the Morgan. People are commenting on how well the MOrgan withstood the accident, I think that's because the modern car was hard on the brakes and had slowed more that people think before impact.
Somehow the British guy saying "Oh dear!" makes it seem less serious.
"Hard on the brakes" Shouldn't we have seen some smoke or heard some tire squeal ?
Or would the ABS prevent that ?
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