I want to plug in a Hybrid

Let me weigh in as the resident LEAF expert. I've owned and driven my 2013 for 4 years and 36k miles. It could probably do what you're asking IF you get a 240 charge solution at home. Your day would be this:

1) drop of kids at school x2 (48 miles) 2) plug in Leaf 240v for at least 2 hrs - would get you plenty of juice back for afternoon errands.
3) pick up kids x2 (48 miles) 4) plug in leaf again for evening errands or tomorrow's day.

You may be able to use the leaf for other short errands too in between all this, you may not. Here are some important considerations:

You're stuck with either 24 kWh or 30 kWh - they aren't retrofitting the larger packs.
The battery degradation seems to be MUCH worse with 2011-early 2013 models, and also worse when sitting at full charge in 100+ degrees. Mine doesn't have any battery loss at all.
They are much worse at 70 mph for range, and also much worse below 40 degrees ambient.
The interior is cramped in back. Not a ton of cargo space, think Mazda2 sized inside.
They drive very well for what they are.
Remember, you don't need to get to a full charge to do a ~30 mile round trip. Just maybe 50% to be comfortable.

You're really the ideal candidate for a Leaf since you have plenty of alternative transportation if it hasn't charged enough. If you're ever near Detroit drop me a line, or you can call me if you have questions.

I challenge the rear seat room issue, either the Mazda 2 is way bigger than I thought or you have a different yardstick than I do, the Leaf is easily three adults across in the back.

It's smaller than my Fit for sure back there.

I'm genuinely curious, so here are the (admittedly difficult to measure properly) numbers called rear hiproom, all taken from Edmunds:

Mazda 2: 46.8"
Nissan Leaf: 50"
Honda Fit: 51.5"
Mazda 3: 52.2"

So apparently it's in the middle of this spec. Interesting

I have enough flexibility in vehicles that I could always swap mid day if range was an issue. Mrs. Deuce doesn't have the same flexibility. She could do work and back once she gets new office space, but then she wouldn't be able to do a spur of the moment lunch with capital providers if they called. That's a deal breaker.
We still need something that seats six to reliably drive across the country a couple times a year. That's the truck. The 911 is permanent. The FJ isn't mine to decide. The R63 is broken (headed out to work on it now) and Mrs. Deuce has repeatedly said she wants to keep the Cadillac. I have a whole fleet of amazing gas guzzlers. I just want something that does what the Insight does, or better, without terrifying my wife.

Can't say enough good things about the Volt (I generally say it all every time one of these threads pops up). It should meet your needs for most days, and if you go over your range it uses a little gas. If you are home during the day and can get 240V charging you would most likely never need gas for daily/weekly needs.

I drive 60-80 miles a day and with mid-day charging I can cover easily cover that. I basically only use gas for unexpected trips, or weekend trips, but now that we have kids we usually don't take the Volt for weekends. For example my current tank has lasted 3600 miles and I have used 6.5 gallons of gas. I could have almost made a Leaf work, but when I bought the Volt there was no charging available at my work, and now I'm not relying on it. If the charger doesn't work, or is occupied, I don't have to worry about getting home.

They are also surprisingly fun to drive. The torque is addicting, and the low center of gravity makes them handle much better than you would expect from such a heavy car.

I also find the Volt the most attractive of the options. And they seem to hold up pretty solid. Our dealership sells them and we never see them again for anything other than basic maintenance. We did just get our first Bolt it and I really like that, I just don't $45K like it.

Aren't there one too many duecelings for the Volt?

Yes, the 2013+ Volt got a little more range. You can find 2013-2015 models with less than 40k miles here for about $12,000-$15,000.

tuna55 wrote: Aren't there one too many duecelings for the Volt?

Yes, kind of. The oldest is in highschool and that commute is completely separate from the other three. All of a sudden I seldom have all four kids at once. Next year both big kids are in highschool and then 10 months from now Kid#1 gets a license and is going to pretty much vanish.
So yes, a Volt complicates things. A leaf seats five but it range limited. A Prius is the most practical but doesn't plug in unless I spend $$$ for a new one. And of course I don't really need any cars at all.

In reply to yupididit:

That's about what they are here. The longer range means that Mrs. Deuce could do her commute most days without gas. Or I could. The big question is whether or not she could stand driving one.

Just piping in as a current CR-Z owner and former Volt owner.

If you want a plug-in conversion, skip the Honda IMA system found on both Insights, the CR-Z, and I think a few other cars. The Integrated Motor Assist has an electric motor rigidly bolted to the engine driveshaft. There is no "one or the other" mode. It's both, in varying amounts, at all times. Sometimes the engine pushes the motor, sometimes the motor pushes the engine, but they're bolted together, so they always move together.

I've seen kits for a 2nd gen Prius, but for what that would probably cost, I'd go for a Volt. The i3 Range Extender is out there, but you get really odd tire sizes (they go skinny with a large diameter to keep frontal area down while maintaining contact patch) and a tank that's good for approximately one battery charge.

If you like handling, IIRC, the Cadillac ELR has GM's MR shocks. I'd like to try one, but the pricing is silly. I still haven't seen an ELR in real life.

If you're looking at full electric and have the i-MiEV and Leaf on your radar, include also the Focus EV, Fiat 500e and the Smart ED. I've seen the Smart around $5k, particularly at a dealer in Dallas.

It's not very hard to run 240V to a detached garage. Compared to other amazing feats detailed in the Grosh thread, it would be nothing. I was surprised to hear it doesn't have a proper sub-panel. Some direct-burial mobile home feeder and a 100A subpanel can fix that. And of course a few days of digging.

GameboyRMH wrote: As far as I can tell, nobody's done that yet.

That, plus you'd only get two complete sessions out of it before the battery was dead. So you'd probably need to tow it there and bring a 20kw generator on the trailer.

I've been looking at Leafs. Folks have noted that there was a running change in 2013 models to the better battery. Is this change known to occur at a specific VIN?

I really want a Volt. I test drove a 2013 at Carmax back when I traded in the Mazda MS3 to them. I really liked it, got it up on the highway, rode good, plenty of grunt, suspension was pretty tight but not overly aggressive. Around town it was eerily quite, made me think of the Insight at traffic lights with the start/stop feature on.

My commute is about 30miles round trip but I do have to go to other locations without much notice so the extended range would be much needed for those one offs. Plus it's also the better looking of all the plug-ins IMHO.

In reply to HappyAndy:

Because women don't plug E36 M3 in.

What range are those first-gen Leafs getting?

I seriously considered buying one new a couple years ago, but at the time their range was ~60 miles. My round-trip commute is just under that, but I have to go over 2 mountains each way, and I was told in no uncertain terms that I could not charge my car at work.

Sky_Render wrote: What range are those first-gen Leafs getting? I seriously considered buying one new a couple years ago, but at the time their range was ~60 miles. My round-trip commute is just under that, but I have to go over 2 mountains each way, and I was told in no uncertain terms that I **could not** charge my car at work.

I was getting 100 potential miles on a regular average day for weather. Less on the highway or in cold weather.

EvanR wrote: I've been looking at Leafs. Folks have noted that there was a running change in 2013 models to the better battery. Is this change known to occur at a specific VIN?

All 2013 models had improved battery chemistry. They did a rolling change in 2014 to the current heat-resistant "lizard battery" - not sure if there is a known VIN changeover.

In 2013 the SV and SL models gained a much faster 6.6 kw charger and a more efficient heater. Some had a DC quick charge port. DC charge stations are few and far between around me though and I haven't regretted not getting one.

I would only get a Leaf with the 6.6 kw charger.

In decent weather I get about 90 miles at 45 mph. About 70 on the freeway. If it's freezing out and I have to use the freeway I wouldn't count on more than 50 miles.

Good info on the better charger. Thanks.

bastomatic wrote:

EvanR wrote: I've been looking at Leafs. Folks have noted that there was a running change in 2013 models to the better battery. Is this change known to occur at a specific VIN?

All 2013 models had improved battery chemistry. They did a rolling change in 2014 to the current heat-resistant "lizard battery" - not sure if there is a known VIN changeover. In 2013 the SV and SL models gained a much faster 6.6 kw charger and a more efficient heater. Some had a DC quick charge port. DC charge stations are few and far between around me though and I haven't regretted not getting one. I would only get a Leaf with the 6.6 kw charger. In decent weather I get about 90 miles at 45 mph. About 70 on the freeway. If it's freezing out and I have to use the freeway I wouldn't count on more than 50 miles.

Thanks for the tips. I'm not sure it matters which charger I get - I only have 120V in the garage, and since it's a rental, 240V is not an option.

OTOH, my round-trip commute is 26 miles, mostly highway. I only do that 3 days a week. From what I read, I should be fine with 120V charging.

Leafs (like every other car around here) are priced high. But if the time comes when I can get a 2013+ for $5k, I might go for it.

. Older safety tech, 335k miles, the need to pay attention to the car mechanically and watch what the battery is doing, and no synchros to speak of on first and second gears.

Actual wear/mechanical issues aside, 1g Insights are perfect for people who want to constantly engage with the systems/hardware and pretty terrible for everyone else. A CVT version would probably be tolerable to use as a 'normal' car for a normal driver, but the manual version especially will reward you with a terrible driving experience if you don't make an effort to understand how it is different from a normal car. Even among people who bought them and liked them, most people didn't understand them 'enough' to avoid killing 1st and 2nd gear synchros, as you can see. They're geared so strangely that anyone who doesn't know how to execute a rev-matched double-clutched downshift will destroy synchros in anger when they want acceleration and the car won't give it to them.

I took a real hard look at that 500e listing in Dallas.. here's a vid of a couple of enthusiasts driving and reviewing what looks to be that exact car: 500e drive

Has no one said tesla yet? Given the deuce family motto of go like hell at all times, a tarted up model x seems like it's the right idea.

In reply to Vigo:

Everything you say about the manual Insight is true. It is extremely engaging to drive. It's damn near work to get it to all go the way you want to to and end up with the battery as charged as you want it when you get home.

As far as a Tesla, I just can't get excited about them. Not sure why. And they're $$$ which I'd rather not spend.