In reply to GameboyRMH :
Maybe two speeds and call it a powerglide lol.
I wonder if the fake exhaust sounds will let you simulate putting the thing on a trans brake/two step before taking off using launch control.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Maybe two speeds and call it a powerglide lol.
I wonder if the fake exhaust sounds will let you simulate putting the thing on a trans brake/two step before taking off using launch control.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.
GameboyRMH said:...purely theatrical noisemaking system...
Pretty much describes how a lot of Hellcat owners use their cars in general, so in a way it makes sense. Ha
edit: Just so we're clear, I love the current Hellcat because it is such a theatrical noise and horsepower machine that you can use everyday. I'll take a wide body Challenger in bright orange, please.
Duke said:NickD said:Fake exhaust note and the shifting are dumb (kinda like the CVTs with simulated shifts), but the styling is pretty solid.
I absolutely despise fake or electronically enhanced exhaust notes for actual ICE vehicles. For this it's completely unforgivable.
The Focus RS is still the worst offender for it's fake, contrived pop on decel that it has stock. There's no burbling leading into it, like you naturally get on decel, so you just get this weak brrrrrrr----pop. Also, really irritating at an autocross, because the pop sounds exactly like a cone strike as well, so you have to do a double-take every time someone lets off the throttle on one.
In reply to Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself :
I've seen plenty of posts from the "GaSoLiNe FoReVeR!!!1!!!@2#" crowd that are actively losing their crap about them building this car. I caught hell on other platforms for ditching the old ballast resistor ignition on my truck for something designed in the 21st Century by the same crowd. These people fear change of any kind, and think the pinnacle of Mopar technology left the barn in 1970. I mean, I'm sad that they are discontinuing the Hemi Challenger/Charger too, but they made enough of them that they won't be going away anytime soon.
EV people are also mad because it's "The Mopar of EV's" . I find that entertaining.
It's definitely a polarizing vehicle, but I dig it. Can't wait to test drive whatever this turns into.
I don't know what the issue with "fake sound" is. There are no fake sounds. There are only sounds. This car makes cool ones, and likely has the ability to make other cool ones. It also goes fast, and looks pretty cool overall. I'm failing to see the downsides.
In reply to adam525i :
The Taycan has a two-speed automatic: fast and faster.
David S. Wallens said:Wait, a two-door Charger? What's up with that?
One comment I read is the roof line looks a lot like a 4 door car with the rear doors removed.
Since the current Challenger is little more than a restyled Charger, I could see Dodge going back to the old-school way of offering the EV Charger with both 2 and 4 door options. In theory, it should simplify production.
I agree, the fake exhaust noise is silly. But who knows... if it actually sells, who will be laughing?
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
My issue is the noise generator just adds unnecessary weight and complexity.
Can we pick our fake engine noise .
12 cylinder Ferrari would be a nice add on :)
californiamilleghia said:Can we pick our fake engine noise .
12 cylinder Ferrari would be a nice add on :)
Hmm... I'm sure the aftermarket could do that. I'd imagine it just be a matter of replacing some sound files.
93EXCivic said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.
A lot of people equate noise with performance, so they don't feel they're getting performance if they don't get the same noise. Same with vibration. The triggers that tell you the car is doing something you're used to are gone. It might seem a little sterile but all that noise and fury wasn't actually DOING anything. And it's not a digital things, it's a feedback thing. The feedback is different.
Feedback through other things like steering, that's independent of the powertrain and that's up to the chassis engineers.
Seriously, make mine sound like this–and I'll happily pay for the vinyl top.
If those new gimmicks are the first step in making an EV more fun, then I'm all for it. The EVs I've driven are generally quite competent, but they are all so numbingly boring to drive enthusiastically. Fast does not make a car fun to me. (I'll argue they can be fun to drive economically in a video game kind of way, especially the ones with good interfaces showing how you're using regen and whatnot).
How do you make an EV sound exciting? The whine is at best just a whisper, and at worst is kind of annoying. There was an E-moto race before my normal IC dirt bike race last weekend, and the crowd quietly watched the E-moto guys and went nuts for the conventional bikes doing the exact same thing at basically the same speed a half hour later. Sound quality is pretty important.
Even the stunningly fast EVs I've been around feel slower than they are with their uninterrupted shove in the backside and general lack of drama. Same with an ICE/CVT combo - even if it's quicker with the CVT holding you between peak power and torque, the ones I've been around feel more engaging in manual mode because you're getting that sound change and physical perception of going through the gears.
The most fun EV I've driven was a (very slow) converted porsche 924 that still had a transmission. Sure, you could pick a gear and leave it there if you felt like it, but it gave the driver the option of being a bit more engaged in the process and broke up the otherwise linear continuous whine of the motor and electronics.
Was thinking more about having the noisemaking system actually do some work in the cooling system and it could actually make some sense. It could run on the motor output shaft so the sound will change with revs like an ICE. After compressing the air it could go through a heat exchanger that could take heat to the cabin or battery pack if needed, then an intercooler to dump any leftover waste heat from compression, then an expansion valve which would produce cold low-pressure gas, then through heat exchangers for the battery pack and cabin heat pump (for AC mode), and then out the "exhaust." No doubt less efficient overall than just strapping a fan to a radiator (and it would need to have an auxiliary fan in the system for running while stopped) but it should offer more powerful cooling which could be handy for pre-cooling the pack for performance use.
In reply to gearheadE30 :
So, cold efficiency taking the fun out of it? It looks like "Dodge" is trying to add gimmicks to find out which ones feel like the kinds of inefficiency that people actually like. Or, at least, drag it out until the "electric is even cooler" branding can percolate through the consumer gestalt. This is, perhaps, just a bridge to an even more efficient performance computer.
Fast and boring, is still boring.
I have no issues with EV... been into them since the late 60s. Pretending they are eco-friendly, or viable options with our current supply of magic that comes out of the wall is another matter.
But the sounds and effects just seem like sitting on the horsies on the carousel, wearing chaps and a hat yelling giddy up!
probably still fun for pre-teens, and some that still are.
gearheadE30 said:If those new gimmicks are the first step in making an EV more fun, then I'm all for it. The EVs I've driven are generally quite competent, but they are all so numbingly boring to drive enthusiastically. Fast does not make a car fun to me. (I'll argue they can be fun to drive economically in a video game kind of way, especially the ones with good interfaces showing how you're using regen and whatnot).
How do you make an EV sound exciting? The whine is at best just a whisper, and at worst is kind of annoying. There was an E-moto race before my normal IC dirt bike race last weekend, and the crowd quietly watched the E-moto guys and went nuts for the conventional bikes doing the exact same thing at basically the same speed a half hour later. Sound quality is pretty important.
Even the stunningly fast EVs I've been around feel slower than they are with their uninterrupted shove in the backside and general lack of drama. Same with an ICE/CVT combo - even if it's quicker with the CVT holding you between peak power and torque, the ones I've been around feel more engaging in manual mode because you're getting that sound change and physical perception of going through the gears.
The most fun EV I've driven was a (very slow) converted porsche 924 that still had a transmission. Sure, you could pick a gear and leave it there if you felt like it, but it gave the driver the option of being a bit more engaged in the process and broke up the otherwise linear continuous whine of the motor and electronics.
Basically, it's the flaws you're looking for :) The bumps in the power curve, the vibration, the noise - all the stuff the ICE engineers are trying to get rid of. Other than the performance variants where these flaws are exaggerated, the EV driving experience is actually the idealized ICE driving experience from a powertrain engineer standpoint. Smooth, quiet, flat torque curve - we've been heading that way for a while. It's why companies like BMW are piping simulated engine noise into their interiors in the performance variants already, because only the performance buyers want all that.
I went to the first COTA race of the hybrid era, when everyone was bemoaning the fact that the cars were too quiet. I thought it was fascinating because you could hear all the stuff happening on the car other than a blaring exhaust, such as the whine of the electronics shuffling power around. Same with LMP cars. Heck, even the monstrous 956 just makes a muted whoosh noise on track. It's a different performance signifier, but it's there. It's like the difference between the pneumatic noises of a turbo versus the bellow of a big block. We mock people that install BOV sound emulators but is this any different?
Can someone post a picture of a bicycle wheel with playing cards in the spokes !
is this what they are trying to reproduce ?
I know it's stupid, but I do like the idea of "4 on the floor" shifter , even if all it does is change the RPM sound files . ......Hahaha
I wonder how much of the 'exhaust' and 'shifting' is because Dodge is trying to be the LAST one to let go of ICE and aiming at the demographic that will 'never buy an EV and I'll take my ICE to my grave!' by keeping it familiar enough to them while probably having a setting to turn off the shifting or turning down the exhaust.
I like the way it looks. And it'll probably be on the list of cars I'll look at for a future daily (depending on price point, range) after I pay off other debts and get a trailer purchased.
Keith Tanner said:93EXCivic said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
More like a bit old school ICE car. I don't want to feel like I am driving a computer which is exactly how every Tesla I have been in has felt.
A lot of people equate noise with performance, so they don't feel they're getting performance if they don't get the same noise. Same with vibration. The triggers that tell you the car is doing something you're used to are gone. It might seem a little sterile but all that noise and fury wasn't actually DOING anything. And it's not a digital things, it's a feedback thing. The feedback is different.
Feedback through other things like steering, that's independent of the powertrain and that's up to the chassis engineers.
IMO in a street car, I'd rather a car feel fast and be a bit slower then actually be fast and feel sterile. The Model 3 is only fast EV I have driven and it was fun punching it once or twice but after that there was nothing about the drivetrain that made me want to drive it for fun.
I am a chassis engineer so I get that steering feedback is different. I fully expect that to not be be brilliant in a Dodge.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
You are right, same with a DCT vs. a manual on the track and all the other age-old enthusiast arguments where flaws somehow equate to character when the right combination of flaws ends up in one place. I just haven't quite figured out how EVs can make the jump from "effective and idealized" to "effective and engaging" that would make me actually consider buying one for reasons other than ostensibly "being green" over other competing options on the market (cars or dirt bikes). That's why I think Dodge's ideas are interesting, even if they end up being a miss. The average car buyer doesn't care about (and probably won't even notice) this stuff - it's something different being tried, specifically aimed at enthusiasts.
JG Pasterjak said:I don't know what the issue with "fake sound" is. There are no fake sounds. There are only sounds. This car makes cool ones, and likely has the ability to make other cool ones. It also goes fast, and looks pretty cool overall. I'm failing to see the downsides.
Because fake is fake.
What's better, real stone or that fake crap they stick on every fast food franchise these days?
Natural houseplants or plastic ones?
Real chocolate or artificial "chocolatey flavor"?
The joyful noise of a real ICE wailing at full song comes from the listener's appreciation of the engineering wizardry that created a gestalt of carefully designed and lovingly assembled machinery operating together in perfect harmony to create power and speed.
It doesn't come from Track 6 on a sound effects record.
In reply to Duke :
Have they actually said it is going to sound like a V8? 126 dB is stupid loud though.
93EXCivic said:In reply to Duke :
Have they actually said it is going to sound like a V8? 126 dB is stupid loud though.
What else would they make it sound like?
Don't put liquid smoke and caramel coloring on tofu and tell me it's bacon.
[edit] I'm good with tofu. I'm not good with fake bacon.
They just played a sample on the news I am watching. It actually sounds a bit "electrically" V8.
Not pure imitation, and I would suspect far more obnoxious than the IC engine at high volume.
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