ICYMI: GR Corolla ticks all the boxes

Any bets on MPG? For some reason I remember the GR Yaris breaking 30mpg due to only being a 3 cylinder...

In reply to Berck :

Everything mass produced has a percentage of failure.  Video is 10 months old.

TL:DW: A rocker lost its roller bearing and turned into a keeper removal tool.  The interesting thing, to me, is while the head looks nothing like a V6 head as I would have assumed (ironically the GR engine family) the rocker looks like the same thing used in the GR heads... as well as a LOT of other engines, including Subarus, Chevys, etc.  So I am going to call this a fluke unless more reports of valvetrain failure roll in.

I can't believe so many folks are hating on the looks. It's a hot hatch not a Lamborghini. This thing looks like a sweet ride. Every GR Yaris review gushes over that car. I wish I could rationalize buying this GR Corolla. Just not the time. 

Well my dealer wasn't interested in my money enough to return my phone call. that's fine, I've never been an early adopter, especially with cars.

However; I am really excited for this car! 3-cheers to Toyoda and crew for giving hope to enthusiasts in North America! Esp after Subaru announce no STI. I feel like everyones biggest criticism for the STI was that it's "only" had 300hp for the last 20(?) years, but subtract a cylinder, and almost a liter, and everyones getting pretty excited. I'm curious to know if Yamaha had anything to do with this motor.

The wheel base is only slightly longer than the R55 MINI clubman, and significantly wider track width. I bet this thing will be a blast on a tight AX.

In reply to thashane :

I think the frustration with the STI and "only" 300hp was the fact that they had managed to keep bumping up the power up consistently until then.  And then when Ford released the RS with 350hp, I think that made it sting a little more.  (When I bought the RS, there were 2 STIs on the lot that had just been traded in on RSs.)  Now they're both gone, so while it would have been fun to delve into nitty gritty competitive details, I think most of us are just happy it exists at all.  Honestly, as long as it's an AWD hatchback with a manual transmission, I'd have been perfectly happy with 250hp.  If the Mazda 3 hatch had been available with both AWD and a manual, I'd probably have bought that.

I kind of like it, but it will probably cost too much and eat enough fuel it can't be my next daily.

My personal take- this is Grail level for me. Awf turbo rally rocket. Looks awesome. Does cool stuff. Is a Corolla, and a hatchback. 

Unfortunately I am well out of the new car market these days due to own choice. That and I can't imagine a Corolla approaching 50. My head just doesn't allow it. 

Teh E36 M3 said:

Couple thoughts:

 

1. 3249 lbs? How can they get it that heavy?  
2. These pricing predictions seem awfully high. Can Toyota make an interior that remotely lives in the same universe as the Audi, pardon me, Golf R or GTI? I can get a similar weight/power and option from the R that is fairly suBtle, so I wonder what they are bringing to the table that differentiates.  God that means I'm getting old, doesn't it. 
3. Tangentially related. The Toyota dealer has two tacomas (4wd, auto, double cab, short box) on the lot. $9995 dealer value markup on both. This dealer sucks, yes, but I'd expect that to be the norm until their lots start filling back up. 

As for the interior, I would never expect to be something like Audi.

Just like EVO, STi, Focus RS, it's essentially an economy car that gets a hopped up drivetrain, suspension, and brakes.

I would be all in if I could afford a new car. Looks great, and I've been jealous of the GR Yaris since it came out. 

I don't even care that it will (likely) have "engine noises" piped through the stereo (like the Yaris). Just when I had written off modern cars, too. 

In reply to Berck :

I'll add that the frustration of the sti is that EJ motors are a dumpster fire with regards to longevity, and the 2.3EB in the FOST is marginally better. Call me jaded, but if I modern powerplant has the potential for significant issues prior to 150k, then I'm underwealmed by it. 

On the other hand, Toyota manual gearboxes are rare, but they're bombproof. And outside of some (significant) oiling issues in the past 20 years, their engines have been as well.  That in my mind is where the GR spanks the Subaru and takes it's lunch money. 

There's also a very small percentage of us who either had parents, or had friends who had parents who had all trac Toyotas with manual transmissions back in the last 80s and early 90s and when we cut our teeth learning to drive, we got some seat time in them, whether they have been tercel, Corolla, Camry or I'll even count 1st gen RAV4 into the mix, and they were far more fun and engaging to drive than they had any right to be. Speedwise they were lacking, but they were engaging, willing, chuckable and almost plucky. A modern feel of that dynamic with some grunt behind it, a 3 cylinder soundtrack, the realization that it won't be a bad investment (regardless of whether it's 38k or 46k), a dealership network that is going to continue to exist all speak to it being a winner in the sound, yet very fun, decision market. 

Teh E36 M3 said:

Can Toyota make an interior that remotely lives in the same universe as the Audi, pardon me, Golf R or GTI? I can get a similar weight/power and option from the R that is fairly suBtle, so I wonder what they are bringing to the table that differentiates.  God that means I'm getting old, doesn't it. 

I hope not!  The Golf R interior is so terrible that I wouldn't consider it for that reason.  No buttons or knobs, just touch screens that don't work with gloves on.  Not to mention hideous looking.

What does Toyota bring to the table?  Not being a VAG product is kind of huge.  I think even most of the Golf R fanboys agree that the reliability is terrible.  Even if we pick whatever the worst reliability Toyota has managed in the last couple of decades (Probably the 86 because of the Subaru engine?), it's still hands down better than whatever's the best that VAG has managed.  (Note that I have personal experience, I currently own 2 Audis and they are astonishingly unreliable, terrible to work on, parts are incredibly expensive, but boy are they nice to drive...)

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

On the other hand, Toyota manual gearboxes are rare, but they're bombproof. And outside of some (significant) oiling issues in the past 20 years, their engines have been as well.  That in my mind is where the GR spanks the Subaru and takes it's lunch money. 

I'm with you, and the fact that it's a Toyota is one of the big reasons I'd like to replace a FoRS with one.  My anecdotal experience is that the FoRS has been reasonably reliable over 5 years and 75,000 miles, but wouldn't you expect *any* brand new car to be?  Over a similar period, my completely stock 2013 WRX broke a clutch fork taking out the entire clutch assembly and leaving me stranded on a road trip, needed a transmission rebuild after the 3rd and 5th gear synchros went out, and developed quite a bit of oil consumption.  The worst thing that's happened to the RS so far is all the things the dealer broke doing the head gasket recall and the 5 trips back to the dealer before they ever got it back in working order.  I actually expected it to be worse, and I'm shocked that thus far the extended warranty has not paid for itself.

Still, this insane 3 cylinder engine is so very new from everything else Toyota has done, I won't buy it expecting Toyota reliability, but I will be hoping for it.

I wouldn't classify the EJ engines as a dumpster fire.  They aren't 2JZs for sure but they are remarkably good for how light and simple they are.

The thing that concerns me about the GR (and FoRS) is parts commonality.  How much is shared with other platforms, how much is unicorn horn shavings?  If the 3 cylinder starts showing up in more mainstream products, that is good, if the rear suspension is shared with a cute ute so you don't have to hunt three months for a suspension link, that is good.  For sure the transmission will always be unicorn unless Toyota decides to start selling manual trans RAV4s.

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:

I don't even care that it will (likely) have "engine noises" piped through the stereo (like the Yaris). 

I assume that's every car now?  I first discovered it with the Focus RS which has a particularly terrible implementation.  I was confused at how they made an I4 sound like a flat 4, but only sometimes.  It ramps the volume with throttle position, but ignoring boost or revs.  It's hilarious.  Also completely easy to disable non-destructively in 30 seconds by disconnecting a single connector under the rear carpet.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Just watched the video--important fact is that this was precipitated by an admitted mis-shift and over-rev.  Good on the guy for admitting it up front.  Given that information, I'm wondering about the order of the failure as presented.  I don't think that the needle bearings in that rocker arm are going to be the first thing to go from a momentary over-rev.  Seems more likely that the piston hit the valve *first* and that took out the retaining ring and possibly the bearing?

In reply to Berck :

I would think the more likely fault would be valve float allowing the follower (not rocker, my bad) to get hammered by the camshaft, damaging the roller, as needle bearings really do not like impact loads.  I have seen similar design follower failures due to piston contact but it was due to the camshaft going off time, allowing the piston to force the follower against a cam lobe.  This results in a broken follower, not a damaged roller.

If the failure was precipitated by an overrev, there would be an air gap in the system while the valves floated.

Valve float related damage hurts the exhaust valves, because those are the ones closing while the piston nears TDC.

There's something about a horny little rally hatchback. I really liked my old 323 GTX, and other than being a street special instead of a homologation car this is about as close as you're going to get. It is a bunch heavier but I'm not as light as I was in 1988 either :) It's also a lot bigger - 16" longer!

It doesn't have a center differential, but a clutch. So it's slipping that clutch constantly to adjust power delivery and deal with different rotational speeds. That says a lot about the durability of modern clutch materials.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Ahh, that would make even more sense.  Impact from the cam lobe after valve float killed the needle bearing and then the rest of the destruction happened as described.   It looks beefy in there for such a cute little engine, and nothing about this makes me at all hesitant to sign up to buy one.

Berck said:

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:

I don't even care that it will (likely) have "engine noises" piped through the stereo (like the Yaris). 

I assume that's every car now?  I first discovered it with the Focus RS which has a particularly terrible implementation.  I was confused at how they made an I4 sound like a flat 4, but only sometimes.  It ramps the volume with throttle position, but ignoring boost or revs.  It's hilarious.  Also completely easy to disable non-destructively in 30 seconds by disconnecting a single connector under the rear carpet.

I know on the new BRZ/GR86, you can simply unplug the speaker or have the dealer go in with their scan tool and disable it. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

In before the "not true all wheel drive" brigade 

WRC also have no center differential, just a clutch for handbrake disconnect.

There is probably no clutch lining like a transmission has, it is probably a multilplate setup that is metal on metal, like a limited slip diff has except instead of spring preload and ramps, it has a hydraulic pump and piston setup.  This is a remarkably robust setup.

this video has some good views of the gr yaris block with the head off. Looks like headgasket went out at 30something boosties

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The Focus RS is similar, but a little more fancy using a computer controlled dual clutch pack in the rear and a fixed power takeoff unit instead of a center diff. Modern clutch materials are impressive, but of course these are wet clutches which makes dealing with constant slip easier.  I suspect that worry about those clutch materials at high temps is why the Focus RS only lets me drive about 20 minutes on the track before it decides the rear drive unit is too hot, opens the clutches and turns it into a 350hp FWD machine which is funny, but not particularly fun.

Surprised nobody has mentioned the old Celica GT-Four / All-Trac yet. This reminds me a lot of that. Also reminds me of what could have been, had Toyota paired the 2ZZ with the AWD option on the old Matrix...

I'm very interested. Wheel base and track width are both a tiny bit bigger than either of our Supras, the car is lighter than either of those as well. Will it make the power of the 1/2jz? Nah, of course not, but it's HALF the displacement of the 2jz, without any concern of wheel slip which is entertaining if not particularly easy on the wallet haha. Add to that the throttle response of a direct injected setup, I suspect this thing will absolutely rip on an autocross course.

My only concerns at this point are outward visibility and price. I love the S550 Mustang and 5th/6th gen Camaros, but visibility is terrible in those cars. It's a real bummer running over cones because you had no perception of them thanks to a 4' tall hood line... This Corolla has a much shorter front end, but it does look awfully high.

That, and I'm not gonna be paying over MSRP, I simply refuse, on principle. Ideally low 30's would make this a VERY tempting buy, but high 30's, 40's... it gets tougher for me to justify. Like I said, VERY interested. =)

In reply to te72 :

I haven't been in the GR obviously but I have been in the plain Corolla hatch and both the Mustang/Camaro, and I can confirm the visibility is quite a bit better. It's not phenomenal like an early 90's low-hood Honda, but it's good enough for a modern car.

I can't stand cars with a coin-slot view out so it's always something I notice.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

Glad to hear that! Nearly every car I've ever owned was developed in the 70's through the 90's, so that's the sort of visibility benchmark I have. Have been daily driving an NB for 8 years now.

Question is, which car gets kicked out of the garage if I do pick up a GR Corolla? Miata kinda feels redundant when you also have an Exocet... don't think I could part ways with the Supra, despite the love-hate relationship I have with it. I realize how incredibly blessed I've been to find myself with such a decision in my future. Weird when you consider I drove straight up hoopties for YEARS until I finally got a halfway nice car. =P