racerfink said:In reply to 350z247 :
And isn’t the Mach 1 Mustang less than $40k too?
I wish. It starts at $54k.
racerfink said:In reply to 350z247 :
And isn’t the Mach 1 Mustang less than $40k too?
I wish. It starts at $54k.
Remember that a 1970 V8 Camaro retailed for $2839 and a 1970 240Z retailed for $3526. They are different cars. They cost different things. granted, the Camaro sold more in 1970, but most of us would have a tough time deciding today which we would like in the garage.
In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
Ah... had my Mustang trims backwards. The GT is the LT1 equal, while the Mach 1 replaced the GT350.
I sold my S197 Shelby for a 370Z. The 370 was better in every respect, except big smokey burnouts, and there is only so many of those you can do. Definitely different cars for different people.
In reply to tuna55 :
Wait, you're saying a V8 Camaro in 1970 could be had for less than $20,000 in today's money? To get into a new 2021 V8 Camaro, you'll have to shell out over $35,000.
I kind of know why cars are so expensive nowadays, but why are cars so expensive nowadays?
z31maniac said:1. Only idiots pay ADM. Fly and drive, or wait.
Look at Civic Type R pricing. Maybe cause of today's craziness but 2-3 year old ones are close to or over sticker. Weird times right now.
In reply to dps214 :
I saw a pretty official looking preliminary dealer spec sheet on instagram earlier. It didn't really have any details various sites haven't already outlined other than maybe the interior/exterior dimensions. It was missing weight which is kind of worries me because if it was an amount worth mentioning I'm sure they would have included it in the release. That being said, I'd be surprised if it was anything north of 35-3600lbs just based on the 370z. It only outlined base and performance trims which leaves me wondering if a NISMO version is planned and if it will be some kind of stripped down version of the performance trim that gets everything but the unnecessary weight adding options.
In reply to Colin Wood : "I kind of know why cars are so expensive nowadays, but why are cars so expensive nowadays?"
Because they're faster, safer, more economical, are more reliable and offer more amenities. About the only things that old cars do better is they are cheaper to buy, easier to work on and they foster nostalgic feelings. (says a guy who loves old cars)
Turbo_Rev said:If they were trying to emulate the 240Z, they missed an opportunity.
If you were trying to post a picture of a 240z, you missed an opportunity. ;)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:but then again, aren't there 2 turbos? what the heck is that gauge showing??
It's a v6 twin turbo so the turbo speed should be the same in each turbo . How fast the turbo is spinning is helpful to know where youre at in a compressor map theoretically. If it's not just programmed like a dummy gauge based on parameters then it could be helpful later down the road with aftermarket tuning I suppose.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Good point.
In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
2x0Z.
Datsun310Guy said:z31maniac said:1. Only idiots pay ADM. Fly and drive, or wait.
Look at Civic Type R pricing. Maybe cause of today's craziness but 2-3 year old ones are close to or over sticker. Weird times right now.
Because fanbois would buy them regardless of ADM. I think that's stupid.
My heart is trying to tell me a trailer hitch could make one of these extremely versatile and in no way would I end up missing having a small five-door hatchback as my only car. I probably ate something that I shouldn't have.
I hate the front end but the rest of the car looks really good. The hard edge straight lines on the front don't match anything else on the car.
Jay got one to review already?
Colin Wood said:In reply to tuna55 :
Wait, you're saying a V8 Camaro in 1970 could be had for less than $20,000 in today's money? To get into a new 2021 V8 Camaro, you'll have to shell out over $35,000.
I kind of know why cars are so expensive nowadays, but why are cars so expensive nowadays?
Wouldn't minimum wage from back then be in the neighborhood of $17-18/hr today?
Colin Wood said:In reply to tuna55 :
Wait, you're saying a V8 Camaro in 1970 could be had for less than $20,000 in today's money? To get into a new 2021 V8 Camaro, you'll have to shell out over $35,000.
I kind of know why cars are so expensive nowadays, but why are cars so expensive nowadays?
In 1970, 98% of the materials in that car were made in America by an American. 2021 Camaros drop to 75% ish US made? Add in shipping, supply chain logistics,tariffs, etc etc and a made in America* car gets more expensive.
*with domestic and globally sourced parts!
In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :
It was even more localized than that, IIRC Camaros were being made in three different factories, depending on what part of the country it was intended for.
The turbo speed gauge is a great idea. Especially for prior non-turbo owners. It's to show the turbo speed so one can wait for it to slow down prior to shutting it down. It's probably the #1 turbo killer- aggressive driving up to a stop & fast shut down. Turbo is at 200k & no oil.
mdshaw said:The turbo speed gauge is a great idea. Especially for prior non-turbo owners. It's to show the turbo speed so one can wait for it to slow down prior to shutting it down. It's probably the #1 turbo killer- aggressive driving up to a stop & fast shut down. Turbo is at 200k & no oil.
This isn't 1985 where turbos aren't water cooled. That's what killed them is shutting them off hot and the oil coking in the housing. Which is why you saw the advent of "turbo timers" in the 90s. Giving the car 4-5 minutes of run time with oil still circulating to help cool off the turbo.
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:Colin Wood said:In reply to tuna55 :
Wait, you're saying a V8 Camaro in 1970 could be had for less than $20,000 in today's money? To get into a new 2021 V8 Camaro, you'll have to shell out over $35,000.
I kind of know why cars are so expensive nowadays, but why are cars so expensive nowadays?
In 1970, 98% of the materials in that car were made in America by an American. 2021 Camaros drop to 75% ish US made? Add in shipping, supply chain logistics,tariffs, etc etc and a made in America* car gets more expensive.
*with domestic and globally sourced parts!
I'm confused what you're saying here. It's not like they outsourced the parts just for fun...it's because it's cheaper.
Also that (juuuust barely) sub $20k 1970 Camaro had a whopping 200hp and absolutely zero equipment beyond a drivetrain, four tires, and a suspension(barely). The current four cylinder Camaro is $25k and makes 275hp and comes standard with things like power steering and power brakes, among other things everyone expects to get now but were options in 1970.
When considering the 2023 Nissan Z, one should first think about the relative cost of the 1970 Camaro when adjusted for inflation, but only as a comparison point when thinking about the Nissan Z.
Great job on the cosmetic design, just modern enough and just enough nods to prior generations. It will be interesting to see how they perform on the track. IMO they need to get three things right to have a class-killer:
- adequate cooling for 30 minute sessions on hot days
- light enough to compete with the Cayman/Supra at around 10lb/hp
- enough suspension adjustment from the factory to get appropriate camber
Definitely has my interest.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:Great job on the cosmetic design, just modern enough and just enough nods to prior generations. It will be interesting to see how they perform on the track. IMO they need to get three things right to have a class-killer:
- adequate cooling for 30 minute sessions on hot days
- light enough to compete with the Cayman/Supra at around 10lb/hp
- enough suspension adjustment from the factory to get appropriate camber
Definitely has my interest.
It will do much better than 10lb/hp unless it's approaching 4,000 lbs. Since it's confirmed to have 400 hp.
mdshaw said:The turbo speed gauge is a great idea. Especially for prior non-turbo owners. It's to show the turbo speed so one can wait for it to slow down prior to shutting it down. It's probably the #1 turbo killer- aggressive driving up to a stop & fast shut down. Turbo is at 200k & no oil.
If the turbo is spinning fast, it is making boost. Or surging, because it is alternately making boost and stalling for flow. You aren't shutting the engine off with the turbo at more than its idle speed, unless you rev the engine up first with heavy throttle application.
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