If I choose cheap and reliable, what's the car for me?

I've got plenty of go fast parts on my 97M Miata.  It's been fun to track in the aughts, but it's now an antique, and it has too much sentimental value for me to push it into a wall, so I'm looking for another street/track car.  I am a decent driver, but no hotshoe, and I have always believed in the slow car fast idea, so big HP isn't necessary.  I'd like to keep my overall budget for everything to around $10k, including any necessary mods to make the car suitable for track (suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, cooling).  I think these will probably suck up around $3000-$3500, so I'm looking for something in the $7k range.  I'd like to be able to drive to the track and back, so a retired spec / caged car will not work for me.  Here's what I've considered so far:

1. Honda Fit GE8 - darn reliable, in the budget (for the most part) and fun to drive, even stock.  I test drove one back in 2010 as a complement to my Miata, but I bought a truck instead.  I've got a bias towards these cars.

2. Mazda 2 - I'm generally a fan of Mazda, but this one never really scratched my itch.  It's slightly newer so prices are a touch higher.  It's basically Mazda's answer to the Fit though.

3. EP3 Civic Si - More power!  These are a bit older and less desirable of the Civics, but they should still be reliable enough (I hope?) for track duty.  Difficult to find clean examples that aren't all duded up with trash ebay parts.  How many miles is too many miles for one of these?  I'm not familiar with the K20A3.

4. Other Civic - Less power, but maybe easier to find a good example within the budget.  I know almost nothing of these.

5. ???

$7K gets you into modern Korean car territory with less miles. Accent hatch manual is fun and has some tech still. Reliable, efficient etc. Rio's wih a manual will usually be base trim with manual windows, no cruise etc but still fun. 

All the hondas on your list are going to be beat and high miles because honda tax. 

Ford Fiesta SFE or SE with the 1.0L Ecoboost or 1.6L Duratec. Both come in 5 speed and have parts from the ST model that swap over including the brakes, knuckles, rear torsion beam and disc brakes. They fit 15x8's and 225's under the fenders. The only gripe that most have is the 4x108 bolt pattern but there are options for wheels out there.

In reply to kevinatfms :

1st gen Focus wheels are 4x108.

I hadn't thought about Hyundai.  My brother has driven them since 2008 and they've been good to him.  How is the aftermarket for the K-cars?  Any other track mods needed such as cooling?

I was a fan of the Fiesta as well when it came out.  Prices look favorable.  I am more familiar with the Fit being good well beyond 200k.  Similar to the Accent, what years/mileage am I looking for with a Fiesta?

You know, my Suzuki SX4 Sportback, with FWD and a manual trans, has needed almost nothing in the 165k miles I've owned it.  Front suspension bits like control arms that are squeeky and such, that's really the only trouble area, and those parts are pretty cheap really (probably partially why they don't last that long).  Fluids and brake pads.  I've yet to take the rotors off the thing.  There's a spot of rust at the rear driver's side wheel arch that I believe was caused by that one long winter in Connecticut.

It reminds me of what 90's Toyotas and Hondas and such were supposed to be like; do basic maintenance and drive them for 200k miles.  The dumb thing is probably worth $3k at most at this point.  It doesn't do anything perfectly but it does about everything well (maybe except for 'get good gas mileage').  I could have picked a lot worse.

bobzilla said:

$7K gets you into modern Korean car territory with less miles. Accent hatch manual is fun and has some tech still. Reliable, efficient etc. Rio's wih a manual will usually be base trim with manual windows, no cruise etc but still fun. 

All the hondas on your list are going to be beat and high miles because honda tax. 

Acquaintance now on third Kia engine; car  is less than 2 years old. Second hand info so no details except rod knock apparent  when he left yesterday. 

Good friend who works in machine shop says that after industrial work, Korean cars are next best customers for engine rebuilds.

Another good  friend who runs Tow Truck company says they are a reliable source of income. 

While I understand that all brands are going to have the odd lemon, these are pretty solid indicators that Korean cars blow up a lot more than others or I would have heard from the same sources. Not gonna put Korean and "reliable" in the same room.

EP3 has a lot of chassis issues I can't exactly recommend one for a track car though it is done and pretty well understood. the A3 while probably the least robust of the Ks is very sound at any sort of power level it will make without FI. Between a Fit and an EP3 I'll probably take the civic 

Sounds like you should be building a second NA/NB Miata that you're not as attached to and therefore not scared to push. I know Miata prices are up but a $10k budget should build a reliable car that's both faster than and more fun than the B-Spec style cars that you're considering. 

Are FRS/BRZ at that price point yet?

Maybe also an Acura RSX? Or a Mazda 3? The 3 was actually raced so there should be parts  

 I really don't like fwd for a track car. 

Appleseed said:

In reply to kevinatfms :

1st gen Focus wheels are 4x108.

So are 4 bolt mustangs. Or at least close enough, as they are the cheap option for Alfa. 

I have definitely considered building a second Miata, however hardtops really skew the price north (a lot).  Hardtops now come with garage queens or race cars - both of which aren't right for me.   It seems like just getting a loose hardtop for a street car is now $2500 unless I'm just looking in the wrong places.  Though this would primarily be a track vehicle, I am also too vain to not at least paint it to match, and that adds even more to the total.

I thought FRS/BRZ would be in my price range now, but they're still in the teens unless they're close to 200k.

Hmm, I did always like the look of the 3, especially its first generation, assuming it's not too porky or unreliable given their age.  I will add those to the list.

Being a Miata driver for a couple decades I had basically written off FWD, but I am trying to remain open-minded given how rare an affordable, reliable RWD car can be.  It'd also be a real challenge to tell the  Sundae cup guys that they're not actually having fun in their cars.

Toyota Yaris. You can get a Yaris for the same mileage as a Honda Fit for about $2500-3500 less. It has 4x100 wheels, which opens options up hugely. TRD offered a rear sway bar, lowering springs, a muffler and there's a decent aftermarket out there. I've autocrossed mine and run it around the local track, and while it's not the fastest, it's plenty of fun. It's got 162k miles on it and hasn't thrown me any mechanical failures to speak of.

beatle said:

I have definitely considered building a second Miata, however hardtops really skew the price north (a lot).  Hardtops now come with garage queens or race cars - both of which aren't right for me.   It seems like just getting a loose hardtop for a street car is now $2500 unless I'm just looking in the wrong places.  Though this would primarily be a track vehicle, I am also too vain to not at least paint it to match, and that adds even more to the total.

This is true, hardtops have gotten very expensive. Does your current Miata have a hardtop? The track car could "share" it when heading to the track. A top painted black looks good on pretty much every Miata color. There's also the Treasure Coast "light weight" hardtop that starts at $850. Not the same quality as the OEM top but acceptable for a track car. I think GRM recently wrote about this with their endurance Miata. 

Yes, I have a hardtop for my 97M, but it's marina green and will stay that way. :)  I'd not heard of the Treasure Coast hardtop, but I looked into it.  It comes in white gel coat needing paint.  After adding rear glass and window seals, the total comes to $1686 shipped.  That's a bit better than a factory hardtop, but not by a lot.  Resale is also unlikely to be as good as a factory top in decent condition.  I'll keep it in mind though.

Makes me want to buy some locking hardware for my current top!

I would lean toward something less likely to end up on its roof.  Fiestas are known for bicycling in autox.  Fit doesnt meet track/height ratio and has an SSF <1.30 (yet is still allowed to autox).

FWIW, my BRZ with mods to support track work was only a tiny bit over your limit.  There is a good chance I will be selling it later this summer when I move (although a few have called dibs).  You could probably get into one for not much more than $10k.

Part of me wants to believe part of the Korean cars detonating their engines prematurely comes from the owners. No oil changes, beating on them "cos it's just a pos Korean car" like they hadn't moved on from the reputation of the 87 Excel.

In reply to beatle :

I'm starting year #3 on the Rio. A set of front pads each season and looks like rears every other. One set of tires lasts the whole season fairly easy. Coilovers, rear sway bar and other misc parts available through Evilla motorsports.

Car is doing its second One Lap of America in May. Cooling has not been an issue. Hell, I ran the first season on Porterfield R4S street pads. 

NOHOME said:

bobzilla said:

$7K gets you into modern Korean car territory with less miles. Accent hatch manual is fun and has some tech still. Reliable, efficient etc. Rio's wih a manual will usually be base trim with manual windows, no cruise etc but still fun. 

All the hondas on your list are going to be beat and high miles because honda tax. 

Acquaintance now on third Kia engine; car  is less than 2 years old. Second hand info so no details except rod knock apparent  when he left yesterday. 

Good friend who works in machine shop says that after industrial work, Korean cars are next best customers for engine rebuilds.

Another good  friend who runs Tow Truck company says they are a reliable source of income. 

While I understand that all brands are going to have the odd lemon, these are pretty solid indicators that Korean cars blow up a lot more than others or I would have heard from the same sources. Not gonna put Korean and "reliable" in the same room.

Several hundred thousand miles on many Korean cars all of them beaten on but actually maintained, many many friends with the same "luck". 

There are 2 engines that had issues. 1.8/2.0L GDI Nu and the 2.0L GDI-T Theta II. When you look at how many vehicles those two engines were put in and I'm not surprised. Those were used in sonatas, Optimas, Sante Fe's, Tucson, Sportage from 2011-2019. 

1.6L GDI n/a and turbo have been solid and here are a lot of those pushing past 200k. Maintenance is key. GDI engines need different love sometimes than port cars and if they don't do the maintenance they fall apart.

My first choice would be another Miata, but if not, and still wanting rwd, a 4th gen Camaro or similarly aged Mustang GT would serve this purpose nicely.  

If fwd is on the table, a Mk5 or Mk6 GTI may fit this criteria.  A regular 'ole rabbit would probably up the cheap and reliable factors even more.

In reply to Puddy46 :

now there's something I cannot believe. "Cheap" and "VW" in the same sentence.

Is this Boxter too hard core?

In reply to bobzilla :

I did look at VWs but they were all expensive, especially GTIs.

In reply to John Welsh :

That looks like a great deal, but a little too much car for me.

bobzilla said:

In reply to Puddy46 :

now there's something I cannot believe. "Cheap" and "VW" in the same sentence.

Mk5 Rabbit with the 2.5 and a manual is getting there.