If you had the chance to teach a class on car buying...

My work is letting me teach a class to the public on car buying 101 next week. We expect about 100 people. I'm going to go over the true costs of ownership, expenses of new vs. used, shady dealer/finance tactics, and laws specific to WA and OR (sales tax, lemon laws, etc). The big draw is I'm going to teach Cars for Clunkers (which I hate).

If you had the chance to do this, what would you teach? I'm trying to put together the best possible curriculum so that the class becomes recurring. I have 2 hours.

Common sense: that 20 year old semi exotic, while down right sexy...will probably cost you more in the long run.

It will apply in other areas as well.

not that you can teach this, but try to instill that patience (by waiting for the correct seller, the correct car, the correct finance rate) pays off BIG in the end....

Cars are all getting fairly reliable these days and people don't need new ones every 2 years. That and maybe tactics to getting the price down whether it's private or public.

I could see this class being fairly straight forward, "Here are your options, Miata, 3 Series or P71, Any questions?"

Sounds like fun, good luck with it.

Teach them how to say "No."

Dont buy a neon at night without a test drive

Emphasize that used car sales from private owners are always "as is" and often at dealers as well unless there is a meaningful written warranty. Also the importance of spending a few $$ to get a car checked out by a mechanic of YOUR choice before purchase.

People wouldn't think of buying a car near home without a close examination and a test drive, but for some reason, they will buy a car sight unseen from an e bay seller based on a description and a few pictures.

Never get on eBay Motors and bid while drunk.

Don't ask how I know...

stalk Craigslist.

Besides a lot of the above, I'd also make them think of need vs. want. While getting some what you "want" isn't a bad think, it can really force a buyer to waste a lot for things they don't need.

Say, 99% of the time, it's a single driver, 30 mile round trip. That person probably should not get a vehicle that's capable of towing once or twice a year. Or if they do, don't be overly extreme.

If you are a family, do ALL of the cars need to drive ALL of the family? If you are single, if family only comes once a year, do you buy a car to haul all of them around? Or rent when they are in town?

By focusing more on need vs. want, the buyers can really save some money, both in buying and in owning the car.

The other focus I like was the paitence thing- as mentioned before, modern cars are darned reliable, so you are going to live with the car for a LONG time. Be paitent to find the car that fits you.

IMHO, both can be applied to new or used cars.

Eric

Good advice, keep it coming!

Eric, I am definitely planning on that concept. I did a 1-on-1 consult yesterday. They wanted to buy a new truck with a full size bed to haul wood and it had to hold 6 people. I told them it was much more economical to get a 6-passenger Sedan/Minivan and an old work truck as both needs didn't need to happen simultaneously.

I'm sure you've already seen it, but this guy provides some great resource information:

www.carbuyingtips.com

Oh, and a reminder that the CFC program is for cars that wil be destroyed. A dealer will give you NOTHING towards the trade in because they are forced by law to destroy it.

I had somebody at work that got a trade in quote of $4000 and thought they could tack the CFC on top of that for a total trade in of $8500......

-Rob

P71 wrote: The big draw is I'm going to teach Cars for Clunkers (which I hate).

Better hurry...if you believe the news reports, Cash for Clunkers will be gone before you can tell them anything about it!

I think true cost of ownership would be very interesting. I feel that I'm smarter than the average buyer, but yet I'm still flummoxed by that topic.

I would love to teach people how to buy a car, not to be SOLD a car! Very big difference!

Couple good ones from grandpa poop:

"Sometimes free is expensive."

"Never get in a big hurry to spend a whole lotta money."

"Something's only 'worth' what someone else is willing to pay for it."

Personally, I'm getting to the point where I really enjoy buying stuff from insurance auctions. While it requires a fair amount of legwork, and is definitely a crap-shoot, I have a pretty easy formula: What it's worth in scrap plus what parts are worth minus cost to get it home minus cost to get it tagged, and if necessary, have a key cut = what I'm willing to spend. This has worked out really well lately. I've scored 3 running cars for less than $300/each in the last year this way.

For the average shmoe who's not interested in doing the auction thing, I'd focus on the basics: Check for leaks, check fluid levels and condition, look for maintenance records, decent tires, make sure expensive maintenance that's due per the mileage has been done (t-belt, water pump, etc.,) if not, subtract it from the price of the car as part of the negotiation. Also, generally speaking, a car that's obviously been loved on the outside (clean, waxed, generally good looking,) is more likely to have been maintained well.

Never negotiate over the phone/via email. Bring as much CASH as you're willing to spend (or a money order if you're shopping in a E36 M3 neighborhood.) and be willing to walk away. Be polite and respectful to the seller. "Would you take 'X' for the car" comes off a lot nicer than "I'll give ya 'X' for this piece of crap." Be leary of buying a car from someone who rubs you the wrong way, or talks the car up to be something more than it is.

Oh, and as a general rule of thumb, I stay the berkeley away from buy-here, pay-here lots.

Buying new every two years is not a wise decision, ever. It only puts you deeper in debt everytime.

Assuming the cash for clunkers thing is still around, give them the facts. From what I've been reading on various online car boards, most people have no idea how it works or what the requirements are (there are plenty of people tossing out, "I heard this is what happens..." statements without ever bothering to look things up first.)

My main rules for buying a car:

1) REMEMBER - they need your money more than you need their car. If you are in a hurry you will pay too much.

2) Never buy any car the first time you look at it unless it is something guaranteed to be irreplaceable that you will not survive missing out on.

3) The correct answer to "What will it take for me to sell you this car today?" is ALWAYS "Sell it to me right now for $100 cash with no paperwork fees." (Unless, of course, asking price is under $100.)

4) NEVER buy a car based on monthly payments. ALWAYS determine how much you are willing to spend in total to own the car before you set foot on the lot. Start offering15-20% below that, and work up slowly. Make them come down at least twice as much as you go up. Remember Rule #1 and walk away at least once. There are other cars.

5) Car dealers are not the enemy, they just have the power of information. They are in business for a profit. Arm yourself accordingly but do not expect an unreasonable price. If you MUST have an unreasonable price, you should be looking at a cheaper car.

I used to sell cars years ago (audi, porsche, saab, vw). It's a negotiation - if you aren't willing to walk away - the other party starts with an advantage. Dealer wants you to fall in love with the car.

Do your homework - you can learn about most of the dealer incentives these days on the internets.

Volume dealers may get better deals/incentives from the manufacturers.

Sales staff and managers are usually more motivated at the end of the month.

When the sales rep goes to talk to the manager - might be telling jokes, but probably working on negotiation strategy - at that point, skip the sales person and talk to the person with the authority to make a deal.

There are also some internet services that work out pricing for you. it's worth having a quote from one of these services in hand.

oldtin wrote: When the sales rep goes to talk to the manager - might be telling jokes, but probably working on negotiation strategy - at that point, skip the sales person and talk to the person with the authority to make a deal.

I always wondered about that. I mean, if you have to get up and ask him things 4-5 times during our conversation, why not just grab the DB and bring him over?

pinchvalve wrote: I always wondered about that. I mean, if you have to get up and ask him things 4-5 times during our conversation, why not just grab the DB and bring him over?

It's a power play, to make you sympathize with the salesman against The Man in the manager's office, and to wear you down with attrition.

Don't be afraid to own an older car, just be aware of the maintenance costs in comparison to a monthly payment and care for the like you would your own home.

Ha reading all this great advice reminds me of the first car I bought used from a new car dealer, my now fiances first car. That was probably some of the best fun I've had playing "the game".

Good times.

Duke wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: I always wondered about that. I mean, if you have to get up and ask him things 4-5 times during our conversation, why not just grab the DB and bring him over?

It's a power play, to make you sympathize with the salesman against The Man in the manager's office, and to wear you down with attrition.

"If you don't have the authority to make this deal, I want to talk to someone who does."

Duke wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: I always wondered about that. I mean, if you have to get up and ask him things 4-5 times during our conversation, why not just grab the DB and bring him over?

It's a power play, to make you sympathize with the salesman against The Man in the manager's office, and to wear you down with attrition.

Ever watch 'Fargo'? The scene where William H. Macy keeps going to 'talk to the manager' shows him just going somewhere to kill a few minutes talking about sports, then heading right back in after 'talking to the manager'.

Anyway, on the subject of used cars: show them how to identify body repairs (overspray, color mismatch,sanding scratches, etc)and how to look behind/under easily removed bits like the trunk mats to check for evidence of same.