if you had to pick one: Slow car fast, fast car slow?

I auto crossed my supercharged mustang this past Saturday.  Early Sunday morning I put the top down and took the miata out for a spin.  My second turn went from 30 to 45 mph.  I thought the car was broken, no sense of acceleration.  The contrast was unreal.   Later that day my son and I took the miata for a few hours of twisty Maine country roads.  Total blast!

I am blessed that I have these two cars,  but what would I do if I had to pick one?  I also have a four cylinder mustang that I am planning on rally crossing.  I can get the back end out easily in the rain, and it is not shameful in highway traffic.  I am so very used to driving a mustang with instant power, but cannot deny the joy and fun of driving a slow car fast.  As a mustang person, I have to admit, being able to turn is a nice thing as well.

So, which is it:  Slow car fast, or fast car slow.  Just as a daily driver mind you!

Slow car fast all day every day. A fast car slow is not only less fun, but also adds to the frustration of traffic.

Slow car fast, absolutely. It allows you to push the car and it's suspension to it's limits while also being somewhat safe- easily done when you barely have 100 horsepower, much harder with 250+.

Just as a daily, comfy car with a bias to power.  Simple truth is I'm a boring driver on the street and I won't drive anywhere near what I would do on a track.

So long as out "slow car" is still somewhere under ~25lbs/hp... then slow car fast.

my father DD'd an '85 vanagon in DC traffic for 15years... and his overall health massively improved when he switched to a new Focus ZX3 in 2000.

sleepyhead the buffalo said:

So long as out "slow car" is still somewhere under ~25lbs/hp... then slow car fast.

Yeah.

I definitely prefer "slow car fast" but slow also has to include "gets out of its own way".

I see all these over-muscled, 500+ horsepower barges driving around every day, and I wonder how frustrating it must be not to be able to use most of that without being a public hazard or getting locked up.

Plus, I get bored very quickly with repeatedly flooring it and accelerating until you inevitably have to get off it and brake for the next street light, SUV, or Prius.

This topic comes up from time to time.  My answer has done a 180 turn in recent years.  I used to be all in on the slow car fast, but not anymore.  Now I'm completely in the fast car slow camp.  Sorry, but to me there's no fun anymore in having to wring the living snot out of a car just to avoid being run over by soccer mom in her (insert mall crawler SUV of choice here).  While sure, it can be frustrating to not be able to unleash all the power of a fast car, it's still nice to have in reserve.  If you want to merge onto a highway, or make a pass it's nice to not have to make advanced reservations.  Just ease into the throttle and go.  Red lining a 120hp car just to (barely) keep pace is no longer fun for me.

Now having said that, my budget dictates this equation a ton.

Fast car fast, obviously. But as a real answer, medium car medium fast is my preference. Something where you *can* use full throttle just about anywhere, but rarely *need* to. Being able to floor it away from every stoplight without immediately going to jail is fun, but needing to do so just to keep up with traffic, or having to downshift three gears to merge onto a highway gets old very fast.

Fast car fast.  (I wasn't speeding officer, I swear)

The sweet spot for me is mid to high-teens as far as lbs/hp, in a daily driver. Just enough power to keep you smiling while you put the suspension through its paces.

Cars I’ve driven that are in this range:

2010 Mazda 3 2.5 (18ish)

1990s Escort GT (18ish)

NA and NB Miatae (16-18ish)

...Meanwhile the 1999 Escort with the low revving 2.0 single cam is dreadfully boring at ~22 lbs/horsepower.

Lbs/horsepower in this range was actually one of my criteria for selecting my current DD (the ’10 Mazda 3 2.5) and I couldn’t be happier.  I didn’t even test drive any 2.0’s, as I was almost certain they would be too lethargic at just over 20 lbs/hp.

On the street who cares. Comfortable car at speed limit wins every time. Bonus points if the top goes down. 

On the track I tend to go as fast as the yearly budget for consumables allow and where I am still learning. 

lb's/hp almost mean nothing, I have one in the ~3lb/hp range and they are fine on the street. Do I want to drive it on the street no still fun thouh to cruise for a bit. 

I think it largely boils down to sensation of speed vs feel of acceleration. Both are fun in their own way, but over the years I have learned that I am not as sensitive to feel of acceleration as I am sensation of speed. So if I had to go binary, and depending on how 'slow' and 'fast' are being defined, I'd generally say slow car fast as they typically have a greater sensation of speed at the expense of feel of acceleration. But if I could put it on more of a spectrum, I'd say medium-slow car driven medium-fast.

slowbird said:

Fast car fast.  (I wasn't speeding officer, I swear)

Same.

In reply to wearymicrobe :

More power doesn’t necessarily make a car a “worse” daily driver, but it does mean (usually) a higher initial purchase price, more fuel consumption, more expensive/more often tire replacements, might need premium fuel, etc etc etc.

Also, for commuting in snow and ice I would not want much more power than mid-teens unless the vehicle is AWD.

Slow car slow. I miss commuting in my 90 LTD.

A Miata is a nice car under 65mph on an open road. Not enough wind noise to damage your hearing.

More power is always welcome but power alone does not make a car fast, just a little easier to drive.

Slow car fast is why i love the FRS.

I drive a couple 30+ year old BMWs.  In their day they were pretty quick, but any minivan today would beat them in a drag race.  Even so they feel fast, and that's good enough for me.

I've owned nothing but slow cars. My 300 SDL is terribly slow, but that didn't stop me from driving it balls to the wall at Daytona. 

My summer daily is ~14lbs/whp. I enjoy driving it spiritedly on the street at that power level but I would be happier if I could maintain the same comfort/mpg at ~8lbs/whp. From other cars I've driven, that's about my sweetspot. I've driven as low as 5lbs/whp and it was no longer fun. Traction limited on a 315 ET Street is scary on the street. 

On the other hand I race a diesel Mercedes. Driving at 11/10 in an 85whp car is really fun. People call their Miata a momentum car. Ha!

Klayfish said:

This topic comes up from time to time.  My answer has done a 180 turn in recent years.  I used to be all in on the slow car fast, but not anymore.  Now I'm completely in the fast car slow camp.  Sorry, but to me there's no fun anymore in having to wring the living snot out of a car just to avoid being run over by soccer mom in her (insert mall crawler SUV of choice here).  While sure, it can be frustrating to not be able to unleash all the power of a fast car, it's still nice to have in reserve.  If you want to merge onto a highway, or make a pass it's nice to not have to make advanced reservations.  Just ease into the throttle and go.  Red lining a 120hp car just to (barely) keep pace is no longer fun for me.

Now having said that, my budget dictates this equation a ton.

I am 100% with you. It's why I loved my 135i. Comfy, good looking car, with a great stereo that would do 0-60 in 4.5 and then had ALL THE TORQUE when on the highway? But it was a BMW and most (including myself) don't want to take out a second mortgage to maintain it. 

For daily driving, medium car medium. Doesn’t have to be speedy or spendy, but needs enough power to merge without redlining or risking getting run over by someone in their suv in their phone.  For weekend hooning, I prefer slow car fast .

buzzboy said:

My summer daily is ~14lbs/whp. I enjoy driving it spiritedly on the street at that power level but I would be happier if I could maintain the same comfort/mpg at ~8lbs/whp. From other cars I've driven, that's about my sweetspot. I've driven as low as 5lbs/whp and it was no longer fun. Traction limited on a 315 ET Street is scary on the street. 

On the other hand I race a diesel Mercedes. Driving at 11/10 in an 85whp car is really fun. People call their Miata a momentum car. Ha!

Race track and street can be two different things.  You and I have been on the race track together many times, I know your diesel well.  In LeMons, you can push it to 11/10ths through turns and go wheel to wheel with other cars.  Not something you can do on the street, or at least it's not something you SHOULD do on the street.  I've driven plenty of slow cars on the track in LeMons and had a ball.  I won't lie though, I'm now driving faster cars and it's glorious.  The car I drive now ('86 Cressida) still lacks some hp compared to many cars.  Being stuck behind a car with much more power but no cornering ability and/or no driver ability is both the most frustrating thing and most fun thing you can do.  It's frustrating as hell because you pull alongside or even ahead in a corner, but then they just walk you in a straight line.  But it's fun staying right with them and forcing them into a mistake and going by as they go 4 off through a corner trying to keep you behind them....

On the street, you can't...uh, shouldn't...do stuff like that.  You'll take a twisty mountain road at 7/10ths through the corners.  That can be fun in any car, regardless of hp.  Though the more power you have, the higher your corner entry speed, so you would need to brake more, etc...  You may floor it getting onto a highway from an onramp, and to me it's not fun in a car that I have to floor it just to merge safely vs. a car that I want to floor it for the feel of the rush.  I still think an NA Miata or MK1 MR2 are some of the most fun cars ever built and I'd absolutely love to have another one.  I just wouldn't want one as a daily, as it would just be too frustrating for my "fun" car to be so slow. 

My buddies 900 hp mustang is pointless on the street where my 330 at the wheels Mustang is fast enough to be fun. 

I take mine to the track where I feel like I'm driving a slow car fast, If i drove his it would be driving a fast car slow.  Laying stripes from corner exit to braking zone sounds fun but unless you have the talent it's more like scary.  

My other mustang is maybe 110 HP and raced regularly, it's a lot of fun.

To answer the question I have to say my most fun cars were less than 250 HP and varied in weight from 2300 to 3300 lb, but to choose them over a fire breathing V8 or something with less than 5 lb/hp for an only car.

NOPE, can't decide, good question.  

This thread makes me miss my 4speed Volvo 240 wagon. It was slow and extremely engaging. I don't think I care how fast a car is as long as it's physically and emotionally engaging at street speeds. 

As I figured, most of you like the slow car fast thing.

Not me, man.  Fast car slow all day every day.  I will straight up stuff a 600 hp small block in a Smart car if I could.  I had grand dreams of putting a Caddy 500 in a VW Safari bus.  (P.S. the framerails on an E-body Eldorado are the same width as the floorpan rails in a VW Bus.)

My 67 LeMans project will likely weigh 2900 lbs or less and have 550 hp.  Quick math, carry the 2.... that's about 5.25 lbs/hp.  And, at 11.3:1 compression from the LQ9/LS6, that leaves room for 750 hp from a turbo and E85 some day when E85 is more available.  That's under 4lb/hp.

Can I use all that power on the street? Nope.  Can I use all that power at the track?  Not at my current skill level.  Can I drive it daily on the highway?  Yup.  Can it idle in traffic?  Yup.  Am I gonna do it?  Hell yes.  In fact, the motor is already mostly built.

Contrast that with my DD Mazda B4000 with 160hp/245tq.  I want to go diesel with it.  Something in the 250hp/450tq range, but it's so slow I'm thinking about giving it a 50-hp shot of nitrous in the meantime just so I can merge on the highway without killing people.