I've never owned a business, but it still blows my mind that a company wouldn't miss $4.5m in cash. That is a lot of money to steal while hiding the theft.
The same thing just happened this week here in Gainesville. A city employee was arrested after it was discovered she had charged $91k to a city credit card. Again, I'm left wondering...who was asleep at the wheel for so long??
dyintorace wrote: I've never owned a business, but it still blows my mind that a company wouldn't miss $4.5m in cash. That is a lot of money to steal while hiding the theft. The same thing just happened this week here in Gainesville. A city employee was arrested after it was discovered she had charged $91k to a city credit card. Again, I'm left wondering...who was asleep at the wheel for so long?? Employee steals $91k
I have a friend in the military who thinks that about a third of the defense budget is either wasted, skimmed or scammed. I have another friend who found that his office manager had been embezzling five figures a year. By the time he figured it out, he thinks that the total was just into seven figures. So no, I don't find it too hard to believe.
Adding this to the list of reasons to die alone.
Cars may suck up all my money but at least they can't hide it from me.
markwemple wrote: Now, if only they'd put this much effort into going after big banks and big banker. Hell, how about wells fargo.
That is Capitalism, not crime.
Although I do agree, this seems like a Good Woman who made a mistake.Cant see why she should not be cut some slack? Maybe cut her a check for a Million or two and set her out to pasture?
Or am I missing something? I remember when crime was not this confusing
SnowMongoose wrote: Adding this to the list of reasons to die alone. Cars may suck up all my money but at least they can't hide it from me.
A lot of guys have lost more than a Miata and a trailer getting rid of a greedy woman.
If it turns out they weren't in it together - his bargaining position with her attorney ought to be pretty solid at this point.
But, to your point, we all die alone. Cheers!
Often times these folks are the ones who balance the books, which allows them to hide it for quite some time.
We had an employee that embezzled ~$25k a few years ago, and I was amazed her husband (also a co-worker) didn't notice that. I can't imagine how a couple of P-cars, truck, trailer and race car wouldn't raise questions... unless you already knew the answers.
In reply to Rodan:
Two words....WILFUL IGNORANCE
In reply to NOHOME:
No, wells Fargo was a criminal act, as was the whole 2008 banking crisis. Fraud at least. It's the whole to big to fail. Even though 4.5 mil is huge, it's small potatoes. They need to go after the big fish who are the ones really screwing us all!
I just finished reading freakonomics (I book I have wanted to read for years, but just now did), and in it is one story about mr Feldman, the bagel man.
He had a business selling bagels at offices. He would drop off bagels in the morning, and put out a money collection box. Each bagel is $1 and is on the buyers honor to pay. He kept very good records about each day and dropoff location what was paid.
Turns out, about 90% of people pay for their bagels. Big companies pay slightly less than small companies. He saw an across the board 2% increase in honesty after 9/11. Also, he saw that executive floors consistently paid significantly less for their bagels than middle management or employee floors.
One explanation is that executives become entitled over time. The other explanation of course, is that executives become executives because they lie, steal, and cheat more than the general population to begin with.
Robbie wrote: I just finished reading freakonomics (I book I have wanted to read for years, but just now did), and in it is one story about mr Feldman, the bagel man. He had a business selling bagels at offices. He would drop off bagels in the morning, and put out a money collection box. Each bagel is $1 and is on the buyers honor to pay. He kept very good records about each day and dropoff location what was paid. Turns out, about 90% of people pay for their bagels. Big companies pay slightly less than small companies. He saw an across the board 2% increase in honesty after 9/11. Also, he saw that executive floors consistently paid significantly less for their bagels than middle management or employee floors. One explanation is that executives become entitled over time. The other explanation of course, is that executives become executives because they lie, steal, and cheat more than the general population to begin with.
The third explanation is that the executives didn't become successful by being overly generous, and did it through frugality--they may not have been stealing, but they were paying less.
The fourth is that they've become out of touch with what things cost, or legitimately thought that it was supplied by the company and the company was reimbursing the bagel guy.
In reply to mtn:
I agree there could be other reasons. And to be sure this was a study of averages of large amounts of data. In no way does this typify EVERY executive. Just most.
and if your forth example is to be believed, it just means the executives don't read well or pay attention to detail, which hardly seems to be a good trait in people who need to make really important decisions. and I don't really see how your third explanation is NOT stealing... (If I take a $1 bagel and throw in 75 cents, does that make me a shrewd businessman who just negotiated a good deal for myself?)
Rodan wrote: I can't imagine how a couple of P-cars, truck, trailer and race car wouldn't raise questions... unless you already knew the answers.
If your wife was the Vice President of Administration at a large construction company, would you know anything more about her salary and bonus situation than what she told you? What reason would you have to not believe her?
A couple of P-Cars, a truck, and a trailer are far from uncommon among people at the executive level, regardless of whether they're bought in cash or on loans/leases. From the sound of it, only small fractions of the ~$1M/yr that she stole may have been visible to him (or any other individual) at any given point in time, and could have been easily enough explained away to anybody close enough to trust her.
The way to get back at people who embezzle is give them a choice of paying it back or filing a 1099 with the IRS. Its income.
And stolen income is not exempt from taxes.
Unreported income means back taxes and the IRS hounding the thief forever.
This is on top of the criminal charges for stealing it in the first place.
Payback is a M...F...
Robbie wrote: In reply to mtn: I agree there could be other reasons. And to be sure this was a study of averages of large amounts of data. In no way does this typify EVERY executive. Just most. and if your forth example is to be believed, it just means the executives don't read well or pay attention to detail, which hardly seems to be a good trait in people who need to make really important decisions. and I don't really see how your third explanation is NOT stealing... (If I take a $1 bagel and throw in 75 cents, does that make me a shrewd businessman who just negotiated a good deal for myself?)
Third example is working under the assumption that the middle management and front line guys are paying more than the dollar; the execs are paying only the dollar.
If you steal 4.5M, then you're probably not above back cutting valves, just saying.
captdownshift wrote: If you steal 4.5M, then you're probably not above back cutting valves, just saying.
Oh, damn, son.
PS: Apparently she was making autopayments to several family members' credit cards from company accounts. Sounds like more than a few people either failed to wonder where the free money was coming from, or believed the BS story of its origin.
NOHOME wrote:markwemple wrote: Now, if only they'd put this much effort into going after big banks and big banker. Hell, how about wells fargo.That is Capitalism, not crime. Although I do agree, this seems like a Good Woman who made a mistake.Cant see why she should not be cut some slack? Maybe cut her a check for a Million or two and set her out to pasture?
To reinterpret a quote from Stalin - steal from one guy and it's a crime. Steal from millions and it's a statistic.
A lot of companies don't really put any controls on their company credit cards or purchasing. Then this kinda thing happens and it's usually not pursued criminally because companies don't want the bad press.
I got hired to clean up a mess an ex-cell phone inventory person made.
Took about 6 weeks to clean up and found the ex-employee had between 10-25 phones a month disappear from their inventory. Some were new, some were ones customers traded in.
This had been going on for at least 8 months before the person was let go. Nothing was proved and no charges were filed as far as I know.
Figure they made $25k - $50k.
I originally read this thread while "making the fudge" and streaming this on the companies wifi. I do not regret this abuse of company resources. Does that make me Executive material?
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