If you're gonna burnout competition, don't put the radiator behind you.

11GTCS said:

In reply to Snowdoggie :

The owner of the track / event is a popular youtuber, I’m pretty sure the revenue from his channel is what bought the abandoned track property.   Its difficult to say whether any thought / logic really was applied to the legal and business aspects of running an event but I’m sure those lessons are being learned the hard way now.   No one has had a harder lesson than that kid in the video, I hope he survives.  

I believe he owns Freedom Factory/Desoto Speedway, but the dragstrip next to Desoto, Bradenton Motorsports park is owned by the owner of Induction Performance, where the event was taking place. 

Crazy to see this event taking place and how bunched up people are during this time, especially when another larger event held around the same time, FixxFest was canceled due to concerns. 

aw614 said:

Crazy to see this event taking place and how bunched up people are during this time, especially when another larger event held around the same time, FixxFest was canceled due to concerns. 

Florida is a whole different world sometimes.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Ah, I got what you're going for now :)

pointofdeparture said:

Snowdoggie said:

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I've watched "Cleetus" (Garrett) on YouTube since the beginning when he was just an employee at 1320 Video. He is often a "safety 3rd" person, if at all. Back when he first built "Leroy" the c5 Vette cart he got failed at tech at so many places including LS Fest before he got help and got up top snuff (ish). Even recently he's had expired belts in a 7-second/180+ MPH car and crashed a car at his own track with no helmet. His safety program for his burnout competitions pale in comparison to the Australians, and watching literally any of them let you know that it was only a matter of time before someone got seriously injured. There's no tech, safety consists of "wearing a helmet" (often open faced), and the "safety" crew members are dudes in t-shirts. Australian events have fully suited firefighters.

All that said... The car builder/driver really should have had a firewall on his "death cart" (there is a reason they are called that) and wore his own PPE/racing suit. I am gutted for him and his family and I hope he recovers quickly. I can't even imagine what they are going through.

Hopefully everyone takes away from this that safety is important, and you can always choose to be safer than the standard.

So these 'death carts' are a thing now?

https://www.thedrive.com/news/20451/man-who-built-death-kart-exocar-killed-after-head-on-accident

 

Yeah, there was a green one that started the trend, despite being kind of pointless people think they're fast and cool...a while back there was a thread here where we talked about the orange one in your link and looked at some of the welds before the crash, the build quality was just horrific.

So you are starting with a unibody car, then taking off or cutting of everything down to the floor pan, then tying the whole mess back together with a poorly designed and badly welded roll cage. 

OK. Does structural integrity mean anything at all here?

Last year at this time we went to this event. It was fun for the kids, but definitely seemed relaxed on the safety for some aspects. 

While I would not wave this as the flag for transportation safety, how would this be worse than a motorcycle?

Lost control going around a LH turn and was hit by another car. Tossed from the Kart. You need to dig down a few layers of bad decisions before you reach the actual cart as the cause of death.

Bothers me more that society uses the natural repulsive nature of these tragedies to close the door a little further for those that want to build creative vehicles.

As for putting the radiator in the back, you can do away with the radiator mounts in the front and cut away everything in front of the engine? For looks?? I don't even want to think of the plumbing that would take, especially, since these guys aren't exactly engineers. I don't see how the radiator gets cooling. Electric fans maybe? Nothing? It looks from a distance like the radiator is in a box. Why?

And cutting the unibody down to the floorpan?? That thing probably flexes like a cheap flatbed trailer. And putting even more stress on the floor pan by doing burnouts?? If anything you would want to beef up the chassis for that. I can see metal tearing and parts flying into the stands.

I'm no engineer, but wow. That poor Mustang isn't going to live very long.

The reverse headers going straight up is a nice touch. Straight pipes. I guess Cleetus doesn't have to worry about noise control at his track. 

In reply to aw614 :

Thanks for the clarification, I shouldn't have assumed that this event was at his track.  Point taken!

I spent a long time in my career designing materials and test methods for PPE for "oh E36 M3" moments like this in industrial environments. Hot water and steam are almost worse than fire and a fire suit can be worse in those situations as it absorbs the heat and traps it rather than it falling away from your skin. It's a tricky applicaiton without making people wear some very uncomforatable things.

The only answer in this example is to keep it away from you, via a firewall/liquidwall.

NOHOME said:

While I would not wave this as the flag for transportation safety, how would this be worse than a motorcycle?

 

Lost control going around a LH turn and was hit by another car. Tossed from the Kart. You need to dig down a few layers of bad decisions before you reach the actual cart as the cause of death.

 

Bothers me more that society uses the natural repulsive nature of these tragedies to close the door a little further for those that want to build creative vehicles.

How much coolant does a motorcycle hold?

How enclosed in the motorcycle are you?

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Is the radiator hose and the radiator exit pointed directly at you?

In reply to Mr_Asa :

i will admit to not having watched the video, because I don't find it very entertaining to watch people get badly injured, so I don't know the full details other than Mustang deathkart.

Radiator exit (I assume you mean the nipple for overflow) pointed directly at the driver seems especially awful.  A boiling over engine produces steam far in excess of the temperature of boiling water, because of the radiator pressure.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

So here's a snip of the vid at a "safe" place that doesn't show anything happening but the burnout.  It semi-clearly shows the orientation of the radiator.  To me it looked like the radiator hoses plugged in on the driver's side bottom and the passenger side top.  Later it looks like the upper hose blew off, which is what I was referencing.  I say it looks like the hose blew because about 2/3 of the car is obscured from view by steam. 

It really is horrific.

https://i.imgur.com/xCsJuTO.png

I melted 3 sq. in. off my wrist from a bad radiator cap blowing off. It was awful. It was beyond excruciating. That was 3 square inches. 

This seems to be a pretty good summary of these types of vehicles:

https://www.thedrive.com/article/15525/the-krowrx-x-tegra-proves-less-isnt-always-more

aircooled said:

This seems to be a pretty good summary of these types of vehicles:

https://www.thedrive.com/article/15525/the-krowrx-x-tegra-proves-less-isnt-always-more

 

Just looking at that one you know it is going to handle horribly.  Has no one that builds these heard of triangulation?

Edit: Should read more.  They address the lack of that

In reply to aircooled :

Big irony as related to this thread - the krowrx x-tegra has the radiator literally right behind the driver and the feed for them beside them. What a complete piece of E36 M3. 

NOHOME said:

While I would not wave this as the flag for transportation safety, how would this be worse than a motorcycle?

 

Lost control going around a LH turn and was hit by another car. Tossed from the Kart. You need to dig down a few layers of bad decisions before you reach the actual cart as the cause of death.

 

Bothers me more that society uses the natural repulsive nature of these tragedies to close the door a little further for those that want to build creative vehicles.

100% This. 

I would rather see these situations approached from a mentors perspective than a rules perspective. Just a simple, "What happens when it blows a radiator hose?" or, "Man if that hose pops you're screwed," may be all it took to stop that from happening. 

At some point you have to let people make and live with their own decisions, even if it kills them.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

NOHOME said:

While I would not wave this as the flag for transportation safety, how would this be worse than a motorcycle?

 

Lost control going around a LH turn and was hit by another car. Tossed from the Kart. You need to dig down a few layers of bad decisions before you reach the actual cart as the cause of death.

 

Bothers me more that society uses the natural repulsive nature of these tragedies to close the door a little further for those that want to build creative vehicles.

100% This. 

I would rather see these situations approached from a mentors perspective than a rules perspective. Just a simple, "What happens when it blows a radiator hose?" or, "Man if that hose pops you're screwed," may be all it took to stop that from happening. 

At some point you have to let people make and live with their own decisions, even if it kills them.

Problem is public highways are shared with a lot of people - you don't usually hurt just yourself in something of car-mass. I want automotive creativity as well, but death-karts are dumb as hell and that's from an exocet owner. If your insurance sees what you have insured as a "civic" or a "miata" they're going to drop you so fast and hard you'll get whiplash. That and 98% of the world's population is too berkeleying dumb to even be trusted to put their lugnuts on correctly, much less build a structurally sound car.

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

Recent events have told us otherwise. Many feel the world needs more rules and all people need coddled. 

In reply to accordionfolder :

At no point in the video was that vehicle on a public road so, your point is?

As to your argument, I think motorcycles, bikes, walkers and golf carts on public roads are dumb as hell and actions only done by people with a death wish. That doesnt mean I want them regulated.

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

That works if you have a mentor available to you.  And if you are even willing to take input from a mentor.  And that the mentor even would recognize the risks of the build.

And it's not just the builder at risk in many cases, too.  This isn't just about personal risk, it's also about the risk of people nearby.  

Clearly, the mentor idea didn't work here- since that's likely how this car was made- more than one person took this car apart to make a cart.

A simple rule book inspection would have prevented this, since rules are made on the blood of countless mistakes before then.

bobzilla said:

In reply to Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) :

Recent events have told us otherwise. Many feel the world needs more rules and all people need coddled. 

By recent, you mean for hundreds of years, right?  As safety rules and regulations have been around for a very long time.  Even in the US, where the train systems being built 150 years ago had regulations to keep people alive.  And it's easily argued that the concept of kosher foods are some of the first food safety laws.

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to accordionfolder :

At no point in the video was that vehicle on a public road so, your point is?

As to your argument, I think motorcycles, bikes, walkers and golf carts on public roads are dumb as hell and actions only done by people with a death wish. That doesnt mean I want them regulated.

I'd bet there are regulations around motorcycles WRT the safety of the cooling system, so that it would not explode on the rider.  There are certainly rules around pedestrians.  And bikes.  And golf carts.  All of them based on previous accidents.

accordionfolder said:

In reply to aircooled :

Big irony as related to this thread - the krowrx x-tegra has the radiator literally right behind the driver and the feed for them beside them. What a complete piece of E36 M3. 

Watch the video also.  On top of obvious safety issues, it's slow, has horrible aero lift issues and is very unplesant to drive (a closed face helmet would help a lot):