Just as an aside, when we were trying out the Sonata/6/Accord, originally I was partial to the Mazda, because I've had such good luck with them in the past. But the seat bolsters were too close together. It's very hard to like a car when you're uncomfortable. And I'm big but not THAT big (5-11" 240).
The Sonata seats are perfect.
RevRico said:pres589 (djronnebaum) said:On the subject of long bed trucks, I think they "work best" when they come attached to standard cab pickups, and the buying public for the most part does not want non-extended cabs anymore.
At this point I think the smart move is to just get a small trailer for the times that stuff that would otherwise go in a bed needs to happen, and have something more like a car. I'm probably in the small minority on this though as this just doesn't seem that popular in N. America.
"Standard" cab trucks are useless though, almost as useless as short beds. Even before I had a family, standard cab was just too small to work out of, requiring borrowing a bigger vehicle or sending multiple vehicles to job sites.
Short beds are utterly and disgustingly useless though, and truck makers seem to be competing to see how small they can get away with. Can't put a pallet of anything in them, can't lay down drywall or plywood at best leaving them exposed to elements or idiots in parking lots.
But then thanks to safety, and shiny happy personishness on the automakers part, a work truck that can carry a crew and materials costs as much as a house, and you need a ladder to get stuff in and out of the bed.
I guess what I'm getting at is that the entire truck segment is just berkeleying utterly useless at truck things beyond towing these days and something needs to happen. if I wanted to buy a trailer and tow all my E36 M3 around, I'd have an SUV. I shouldn't NEED to take a trailer to the hardware store or landscaper or whatever if I have a truck, the whole point of the truck is to be able to load things in the bed.
Even the mini pickups from the 70s were more useful than these things. They were small trucks with big beds and they didn't cost $60,000. You won't see the Middle Eastern Terrorists trading in their Toyota Hi Luxes for the Mini Hyundai either. Mount a machine gun back there and the operator will be hanging out past the tailgate holding on for his life. 
Bring back the old school mini pickups.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Why can't anybody build a pickup with a bed long enough to haul a motorcycle, or sheet rock or anything you would want to haul in a pickup truck?
Been looking at new 8' bed trucks for work. There's options. I go regular-cab myself, despite the discussion above (it's usually just me, or one other person, and I have other cars for hauling people), and this is available for ~$30,000 after incentives (MSRP is ~$34K).
Powertrain
5.7L V8 HEMI® MDS VVT Engine $1,450
8-Speed Automatic 8HP70 Transmission $500
Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle $495
3.92 Rear Axle Ratio $95
Class IV Receiver-Hitch $345
Packages
Electronics Group $695
Power and Remote Entry Group $735
Chrome Plus Package $1,295
Trailer-Tow Group $815
Exterior
Monotone Exterior Colors:Patriot Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint $100
Lighting:LED Bed Lighting $145
Wheels:17-Inch x 7.0-Inch Aluminum Wheels $0
Tires:P265/70R17 BSW All-Season Tires $0
Bedliners:Spray-In Bedliner by Mopar® $595
Additional Exterior Features:Monotone Paint $0
Interior
Three-Passenger Seating:Cloth 40/20/40 Bench Seat $0
Entertainment:Uconnect® 4C with 8.4-Inch Display $0
Entertainment Components:SiriusXM® with 6-Month Radio Sub Call 800-643-2112$195
Safety & Security Systems:Trailer Brake Controller $295
For ultimate, heavy duty, commercial monster (tow package, 7.3L gas, etc.), plus everything I'd want in a personal truck (cloth seats, carpet, chrome bumpers/grill and better wheels, LED bed lighting and spray in bedliner, fender liners, etc.), this is $46K MSRP. I even made it extended cab just to add to the discussion, regular cab knocks about $2500 off. Still steep, but doable:
Model
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Back to the main topic though, I think Hyundai is doing a pretty good job these days. I had a very disappointing rental experience with a K5 sedan last month, but I am assuming that was because it was the base-model rental car spec (hard armrests and plastic steering wheel were irritating after 3-4 hours on the road).
Even more than that, Hyundai is really kicking ass and showing their dedication to motorsports with the N-Line stuff. There was a whole field of the cars at Sebring last year, and they seem to be trying very hard to engage with customers at the track. Even if they haven't gotten it 100% right yet, I have massive respect for the effort they are putting in.
Flynlow (FS) said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Why can't anybody build a pickup with a bed long enough to haul a motorcycle, or sheet rock or anything you would want to haul in a pickup truck?
Been looking at new 8' bed trucks for work. There's options. I go regular-cab myself, despite the discussion above (it's usually just me, or one other person, and I have other cars for hauling people), and this is available for ~$30,000 after incentives (MSRP is ~$34K).
Powertrain
5.7L V8 HEMI® MDS VVT Engine $1,450
8-Speed Automatic 8HP70 Transmission $500
Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle $495
3.92 Rear Axle Ratio $95
Class IV Receiver-Hitch $345
Packages
Electronics Group $695
Power and Remote Entry Group $735
Chrome Plus Package $1,295
Trailer-Tow Group $815
Exterior
Monotone Exterior Colors:Patriot Blue Pearl-Coat Exterior Paint $100
Lighting:LED Bed Lighting $145
Wheels:17-Inch x 7.0-Inch Aluminum Wheels $0
Tires:P265/70R17 BSW All-Season Tires $0
Bedliners:Spray-In Bedliner by Mopar® $595
Additional Exterior Features:Monotone Paint $0
Interior
Three-Passenger Seating:Cloth 40/20/40 Bench Seat $0
Entertainment:Uconnect® 4C with 8.4-Inch Display $0
Entertainment Components:SiriusXM® with 6-Month Radio Sub Call 800-643-2112$195
Safety & Security Systems:Trailer Brake Controller $295
For ultimate, heavy duty, commercial monster (tow package, 7.3L gas, etc.), plus everything I'd want in a personal truck (cloth seats, carpet, chrome bumpers/grill and better wheels, LED bed lighting and spray in bedliner, fender liners, etc.), this is $46K MSRP. I even made it extended cab just to add to the discussion, regular cab knocks about $2500 off. Still steep, but doable:
Model
- 2021 Ford Super Duty F-250 XL SuperCab, 8’ Box, 7.3L 2V DEVCT NA PFI V8 Engine, TorqShift® 10-speed Automatic Transmission, 4.30 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio, 4X2, SRW $36,765
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PaintS4
- Antimatter Blue $0
- No Secondary Color $0
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PowertrainS4
- 7.3L 2-Valve V8 Gas Engine
- 4X2
- TorqShift® 10-speed Automatic Transmission
- 4.30 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio
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PackagesS4
- Camper Package $160
- STX Appearance Package $1,825
- Power Equipment Group $865
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ExteriorS4
- 18" Sparkle Silver Painted Cast Aluminum Wheels with Bright Hub Cover and Center Ornament (SRW) $0
- Splash Guards/Mud Flaps – Rear $0
- Splash Guards/Mud Flaps – Front $130
- Bedliner – Tough Bed® Spray-in $595
- Wheel Well Liner – Front/Rear $325
- Center High-Mounted Stop Lamp (CHMSL) Camera $200
- LED Roof Marker/Clearance Lamps $95
- LED Box Lighting $60
- LT275/65Rx18E BSW A/S Tires $0
- Manual-folding, Manual-Telescoping, Power Glass Trailer Tow Mirrors with Heated Glass and Heated Convex Spotter Mirror $0
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InteriorS4
- Medium Earth Gray $0
- Cloth $0
- Cloth Split Bench 40/20/40 Front Seats $100
- Floor Covering – Color-Coordinated Full Carpet with Floor Mats $60
- Engine Idle Shutdown – 5 Minute $250
- Integrated Trailer Brake Controller $270
- Cruise Control $0
- 110-Volt/400-Watt AC Outlet $175
- Upfitter Switches $165
- AM/FM Stereo with MP3 Player $0
- SYNC® $0
Great prices
both are cheaper than what I paid for my 21 tacoma offroad 4x4, double cab long bed 2 months ago ($43,000)
then again having lived with tacoma long bed access cab ($22,000 ) for 3 years 18-21, I know access cab doesn't fit my needs
Off topic warning. I'm old enough to remember when PU trucks started to compete, or exceed, coupe/sedan car sales due to their (PU) low prices. That was back in the late '70s. Times sure do change.
But, back on topic, Hyundai and Kia are producing some very sharp vehicles as of late.
Tim Suddard said:As for Kia and Hyundai, could you imagine giving them serious consideration a decade or two ago? Today, I would not consider shopping for a new car without shopping these brands
It's been longer than you think since they started offering good products. I started in 2002 and have been happy since.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Just as an aside, when we were trying out the Sonata/6/Accord, originally I was partial to the Mazda, because I've had such good luck with them in the past. But the seat bolsters were too close together. It's very hard to like a car when you're uncomfortable. And I'm big but not THAT big (5-11" 240).
The Sonata seats are perfect.
This is one of the 1st things I noticed, and it shocked me. I am a big guy, and as soon as I sat in the seats of the Forte GT, I was comfortable. That never happens. In my Mazda, I had to put the seat all the way back and there was very little bolstering. The GT not only fits me perfectly, there's actual sporty bolstering and what feels like a foot more hip room and leg room. I actually feel like I sit IN the seats, not ON them, if that makes any sense. Hell, the GT has more space for the driver than my wife's larger Mazda CX-5! I still can't figure that out.
My wife and I just bought our first Kia. I needed to replace my truck and I didn't want another pickup. I was looking at Hyundai Kona, but my daughter, who will drive this vehicle too, wanted a Nissan Kicks. I looked at it and said no. I wanted a little more than 122 hp. So she said how about the Kia Seltos. On a day off, I went for a test drive in a Seltos and a Kona. Kona felt like I was driving my Chevy Cruze, which I like but I wanted a little more of a different feel. Well, last Saturday we bought a 2021 Seltos. First impression is it feels light. Rides nice. We only have the base, an LX AWD. So it only has 146 hp but it's spunky enough. 30 mpg on the expressway I love. Plenty of room for my work clothes and boots. Only downside is I'm not a fan of the CVT. I know they run them in tons of cars but I always hear bad stories about them failing. I'm going to give it a shot anyway. If I could have afforded it, I would have gone for the higher option packages with the 175 hp turbo 4 and auto transmission. Time will tell if this works I guess...
Tim Suddard said:As for Kia and Hyundai, could you imagine giving them serious consideration a decade or two ago? Today, I would not consider shopping for a new car without shopping these brands
Yes. I was driving them before Bob ever heard the word Hyundai. But you should know what you’re getting in to.
I drive one now and I’m happy with it but I did a lot of research before I bought and I’m glad I did. They are not without their issues. They’re in $5 billion deep with their engine problems, another quarter billion fine for the way they’ve treated their customers over it and more than 650,000 vehicles recalled for the possibility of catching fire.
And then there’s the dealer experience. Mine was ok but it was very simple. I know of quite a few people that won’t buy another because of the way they’ve been treated with both sales and service and them refusing warranty repair work. Word is getting around and I think they’re going to pay for it.
I’m quite happy with mine but there’s a reason I call it the Korean Cavalier. I know what it is
A couple years ago I would have laughed if someone told me that the most expensive car I'd buy to date would be a new Kia. I would have laughed harder if you told me that I would have had to visit many dealers to avoid extra markup on a Kia, and would have been happy paying MSRP- for a Kia. My wife's Telluride has been a terrific vehicle, and still feels like a value over a year later.
On the truck thing- some of you guys crack me up how much you bemoan a bed that is a few inches shorter. A crew cab 8' bed truck is looooong. Most people don't want to drive that the 99.99% of the time that they aren't trying to haul 8' objects with the gate closed. If you do need to haul large things that often, hopefully it's a work truck and you are getting paid for it. A standard bed is 6 feet. The full size crew cab trucks are about 5 1/2 feet long. In the 15 years that I've owned my truck, I can Probably count on one hand times when my 5' 7" bed was too short but a 6' bed would have been long enough. Not a lot of items sold in 6' increments. I've had lots of pallets in the back of my truck with the gate still up. Drop the gate, and no problem with fitting a bunch of drywall or other materials. In a pinch, I've occasionally hauled some items that were way too long for any 8' bed.
Standard bed size varies between trucks. A lot of the modern crew cab half tons only have 5.5' beds (sometimes with a 6.5' optional). Small trucks sometimes have 6 or 6.5' standard. Full size pickups usually have 6.5' as the standard bed, although Ford Superdutys are strange with a 6.75' bed. Long beds are pretty universally 8' though.
Boost_Crazy said:On the truck thing- some of you guys crack me up how much you bemoan a bed that is a few inches shorter. A crew cab 8' bed truck is looooong. Most people don't want to drive that the 99.99% of the time that they aren't trying to haul 8' objects with the gate closed. If you do need to haul large things that often, hopefully it's a work truck and you are getting paid for it. A standard bed is 6 feet. The full size crew cab trucks are about 5 1/2 feet long. In the 15 years that I've owned my truck, I can Probably count on one hand times when my 5' 7" bed was too short but a 6' bed would have been long enough. Not a lot of items sold in 6' increments. I've had lots of pallets in the back of my truck with the gate still up. Drop the gate, and no problem with fitting a bunch of drywall or other materials. In a pinch, I've occasionally hauled some items that were way too long for any 8' bed.
Just to clarify, the ones I built above were spec'd as work trucks, not cars playing dress-up. Primary purpose is towing/hauling. It's great that you don't need a long bed, but some do. Either the 6000+ lb towing capacity, or the 8' bed, gets used 25-50% of the time I'm using the truck. I share Snowdoggie's frustrations with the vanishing availability of 8' bed, reasonably priced, "work trucks", which is why I configured and posted the ones above.
For a daily driver/family hauler, I use a car. It drives better, it's more comfortable, and it's more spacious. It cracks me up that people try to use trucks for that purpose in the first place.
Mr. Peabody said:And then there’s the dealer experience. Mine was ok but it was very simple. I know of quite a few people that won’t buy another because of the way they’ve been treated with both sales and service and them refusing warranty repair work. Word is getting around and I think they’re going to pay for it.
when I had my Tiburon and was part of the online Hyundai Scene, we referred to the 10 year 100,000 warranty was "America's most voided warranty" as they would literally void it for anything. I had an aftermarket Sony put into my tib. After three years the dash lights went out. It was the dimmer switch. The dealer told me flat out that the Radio caused it and it would not covered by the warranty.
My tib also had the very rare bronze interior. When the door panel cracked (and they all did) it took two tries to replace it. Even then, the colour was not 100% correct.
My dealer was also a Dodge dealer, so they had more of their act together than a stand alone Hyundai Dealer, but the parts and service department were the reason I never went back. That is a shame too, when I killed my Tiburon in an accident, the Genesis coupe was just coming out. I really liked it and wanted one, but I did not want to deal with the hot mess that was the dealership.
South Koreans think that the Japanese are lazy and not detail oriented. That should tell you something about Kia and Hyundai. And if you remember back to the '60's and early '70's, Japanese products were considered second or third rate. The Honda and Toyota dynasties were not built overnight. So yes, the first years of Kia and Hyundai were rough too. But my oh my have they ever improved.
SWMBO has a 2013 Elantra base model bought new in 2014.
I've maintained it since new, it's at 149kms (92k mi) now. 80% highway. Other than brakes, tires, fuel, oil, and bulbs it's needed an end link (warranty), an AC hose, and an outer tie rod.
The engine is pretty rattly now despite regular synthetic oil changes. I've seen a few others with timing chain issues at work, but I suspect they had poor maintenance.
It's a fine appliance, gets great fuel economy but totally uninspiring to drive. I actually think I'd prefer if it were an automatic, the clutch is super vague and the way it hangs revs means I have to make a little effort to drive smoothly.
For me, this is about the generation where they're worth buying. The older cars have that J body feel. The older SUVs seem to always needs struts. Had one newer Santa Fe that was leaking coolant from the plastic crossover tube.
There's one model that you need to unbolt a control arm to remove the rear caliper, which I think is silly.
Plus the GDI engine issues.
On the flip side, I have enjoyed the Genesis sedans I've driven/worked on. And the whole lineup asthetically looks really sharp now.
I'd be interested in taking an N line car for a spin.
In reply to Flynlow (FS) :
Just to clarify, the ones I built above were spec'd as work trucks, not cars playing dress-up. Primary purpose is towing/hauling. It's great that you don't need a long bed, but some do. Either the 6000+ lb towing capacity, or the 8' bed, gets used 25-50% of the time I'm using the truck. I share Snowdoggie's frustrations with the vanishing availability of 8' bed, reasonably priced, "work trucks", which is why I configured and posted the ones above.
For a daily driver/family hauler, I use a car. It drives better, it's more comfortable, and it's more spacious. It cracks me up that people try to use trucks for that purpose in the first place.
My comments weren't directed towards you- if you need an 8' standard cab work truck, knock yourself out. I'm glad they make what you need. There are plenty of them out there, but most are set up as work trucks.
I think your "cars playing dress up" statement is ignorant. If I bought a standard cab 8' bed truck as a daily driver, that would be playing dress up, since I'd rarely need that 8' bed. A crew cab short bed truck is a much better tool for the job that I need- hauling people, bulky/dirty items and occasional towing, usually at the same time. I've owned a minivan, now the on- topic Telluride, and still often take the truck instead. I find it more comfortable than a car, especially on long trips. You can't beat cubic feet of stretch out space. If I had to have one vehicle, it would be a crew cab short bed truck, no contest. I'm not alone, judging by the sales numbers.
Also- when trucks were only work trucks, they pretty much sucked. They drove horribly and were years behind cars in comfort and safety. Trucks made great leaps forward when they became popular do it all vehicles, and work trucks today are better for it.
Boost_Crazy said:Also- when trucks were only work trucks, they pretty much sucked. They drove horribly and were years behind cars in comfort and safety. Trucks made great leaps forward when they became popular do it all vehicles, and work trucks today are better for it.
This is very true. I can remember back to the late 70s when my Parents were running an AKC registered Kennel. We had a Chevy "custom deluxe 10" that was a miserable beast to drive. Column shifter, heavy duty springs, did not even come with a radio. My parents bought it new and within a year was already spotting rust in all the usual places and some unusual ones. 5 years later it was gone, rotted to the point of being unsafe.
10 years later, I had my first Hyundai, a 1988 Hyundai Excel GS. First of the Excels with body coloured bumpers and the aero headlights. This was a fully optioned model except for sunroof and auto transmission (those options were only availible together for some weird reason). I put almost 170,000 miles on that wee beastie before trading it on my Tiburon. It went through snow like nobody's business, I creased the side in an accident, and even drove it through saltwater. The only issue it ever had was the transmission dying at 125,000 miles when it decided it did not want to stay in gear anymore.
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