imight be going to Germany for a few years| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 4:24 p.m.

So I think I've decided to do a tour overseas in germany, and I have been having dreams of driving the autobahn and nurburgring. I think I might have to take a z28 over there with me lol. So if you had the opportunity what car would you buy once living there.

pete240z HalfDork
12/27/08 5:14 p.m.

1972 BMW 2002 - Just seems right - shallow grassroots pockets.

Porsche 911 Also just seems right - deep pockets.

Nissan 350Z - Not right, but should annoy everyone.

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 5:32 p.m.

I've been thinking an alfa, or sierra cosworth, or an escort rs or, some kind of fiesta, hell a mercedes with a manual trans, man the possibilities.

mtn Dork
12/27/08 5:35 p.m.

E30 BMW 318 Wagon

B02S4 Reader
12/27/08 5:57 p.m.

I saw relatively few Japanese cars in southern Germany when I was there this past summer, just a smattering of Toyotas & Nissans. Keep in mind that gas really does cost significantly more over there. That said, the answer depends on what you want...personally, I would go Porsche or BMW...

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 6:03 p.m.

well lucky for me they give us a cost of living allowance, so that'll help offset the gas prices and on base gas is cheaper by far than off base (from what I hear anyway) I'm just curious as to what everyone would lust after if they could get it. BMW's are a dime a dozen over there. Porsche that's sounds like fun.

PorschesOnTheCheap New Reader
12/27/08 6:17 p.m.

I've lived in Germany - I was there from 2000-2003. Any older car with a large engine is very cheap, especially 12-cylinder BMWs and big V8 Mercedes.

The reason is that Germany had quite loose emissions regulations until well into the 1990's and many cars didn't even have catalyitic converters. A law was passed to try to get the non-emissions controls cars off the road by taxing them out of existence.

Road tax, due anually, is 50 Euro per 100cc of engine size for any car without a cat. When I was there, I had an un-regulated 1.3L Golf and paid 650 Euro per year in road tax to keep it registered. That was on top of $5 per gallon gas (1 Euro per liter, 4 liters to a gallon, Dollar to Euro was about 1.22:1)

What does all this mean? If you are going to keep the car and bring it back here, buy the biggest, fastest, most gas-guzzling-est BMW or Mercedes or Porsche 928 or whatever for cheap, flog the crap out of it on the autobahn, then bring it home with you.

Cars over 25 years old no longer need to meet US emissions or safety regulations to import them, so if you buy an '84 or older, you can bring it back without having to "convert" it to US spec.

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 6:21 p.m.

Ok so who wants old cars from germany lol

neon4891 SuperDork
12/27/08 8:56 p.m.

wherethefmi2000 wrote: Ok so who wants old cars from germany lol

be carefull of asking that question here

pres589 New Reader
12/27/08 9:15 p.m.

I've actually thought about this before, and would probably tart up a Lada 1201. Turbo off of the 150hp VW 1.8t, FI w/ Megasquirt, and some brake / suspension / wheel package improvements. Should improve the car quite a bit and should be cheap to build.

Tommy Suddard GRM+ Member
12/27/08 9:20 p.m.

wherethefmi2000 wrote: Ok so who wants old cars from germany lol

I just need parts...

Luke Dork
12/27/08 9:26 p.m.

Check out this German car sales site - http://www.mobile.de/home/index.html?lang=en#1

Cosworth Merc 190 for 5000 USD - http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=89241871&__lp=3&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=17200&makeModelVariant1.modelId=126&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&minPowerAsArray=110&minPowerAsArray=KW&maxPowerAsArray=148&maxPowerAsArray=KW&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&transmission=MANUAL_GEAR&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=en&pageNumber=2

928 with a stick for 6000 USD - http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=94054932&__lp=3&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20100&makeModelVariant1.modelId=11&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&transmission=MANUAL_GEAR&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=en&pageNumber=1

Cheap 320i Touring (1,000 USD) - http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=13800555&__lp=736&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=3500&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&transmission=MANUAL_GEAR&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&categories=EstateCar&lang=en&pageNumber=3

Alfa SZ (awesome, but not cheap at 40,000 USD) - http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=31147251&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=900&makeModelVariant1.modelId=20&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&lang=en&pageNumber=1

JeepinMatt New Reader
12/27/08 9:41 p.m.

Go grab a 944, '85.5+

Close to the top of my list of cars I'd want to get (and can)

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 10:24 p.m.

neon4891 wrote:
wherethefmi2000 wrote: Ok so who wants old cars from germany lol
be carefull of asking that question here

I thought of that after I posted lol

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 10:34 p.m.

I always liked this car

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/27/08 10:35 p.m.

That 190 is the sex

JFX001 HalfDork
12/27/08 11:15 p.m.

1992 500E....or a 356.

pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/27/08 11:28 p.m.

Vee Dub in da house!

pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
12/27/08 11:28 p.m.

Oh, and go to Oktoberfest.

aussiesmg HalfDork
12/28/08 12:40 a.m.

Porsche 930 turbo late model with 5 speed

Mental SuperDork
12/28/08 1:40 a.m.

pinchvalve wrote: Oh, and go to Oktoberfest.

Oktoberfest is OK, but quite touristy and has lost a lot of its charm. Just prior to Octoberfest is Bad Durkhiem, a wine festival. Thats is fun. Very German, very cheap, and very drunk. Take a tour bus or plan or sleeping in your car.

As far as cars go, don't dismiss the smaller displacement Europe-only stuff. I was there from 91-94. I had a BMW 318, a 520, and a 728. They were all old, but still moved very well. I rented a new (at the time) E36 318 and it was really a screamer. I had a few Japanese creations as well and they never could run as hard for as long as the German stuff. I cooked a Supra running it flat out from Frankfurt to Kaiserslaughtern. It had the power, but the cooling system just couldn't keep up. In contrast, my MkII Scirroco ran 120 from Stuttgart to Frankfurt without even moving from the normal temp range.

I also had a 2 liter Merc, and while it wouldn't set any land speed records, it was fine with the foot planted for hours. Trust me, this car had a hard life, but was still really solid.

The car to have for the gearheads when I was there was the BMW E24 323. It was the foxbody Mustang of the time/region and the kids there built some real fast cars out of them.

My buddy had a 91 DSM AWD Turbo. He got behind one of these on the bahn and at 140, the DSM electronically said "no more." When the 323 driver realized it, he literally waved "bye bye" and pulled away.

With the new EU regulations, driving from country to country is like state to state here. Germany is the size of Wisconscin. While you are there, see Belgium, Luxumburg is amazing as well as the Netherlands, and even France is great if you stay away from Paris (Of course you have to go to Paris to say you have been, but still). Never made it to Italy, but I am told its also a must see. Skiing in the alps is also a must do, even if you suck. There is a bar 1/2 down the slope.

A very good freind bought a new Honda Civic (non-gear head, sensible driver) while we living there and made it a piont to drive to every country he could. Within one year he racked up 75,000 miles and something like 14 countries.

You're gonna love it.

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/28/08 1:49 a.m.

I want to drive from Davos in Switzerland to Stelvio in italy this is the road

wherethefmi2000 Reader
12/28/08 3:07 a.m.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=en&id=73941263&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=9000&makeModelVariant1.modelId=4&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=2

pres589 New Reader
12/28/08 8:59 a.m.

wherethefmi2000 wrote: http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=en&id=73941263&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=9000&makeModelVariant1.modelId=4&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=2

As an owner of a mk1 Capri that is quietly rusting away in a shed back at my parents, I can really understand the attraction to the Sexy European. However, that is a freak show, and I wouldn't touch it for anything. Get a late 2.8i with it's clean front end and be done with it, not that car with it's carbed Cologne V6 and totally messed up exterior.