My chevy pickup just threw a rod bearing today so it seems to be an omen to seriously check out a couple of local Impala cop cars for sale here. One is an '03 with 87k, and there are a couple others ('01-'05) with about 110k. All in about the $3000-3500 price range. Anything in particular to look (or look out) for in these cars? I really like the crown vic P71's , but for a daily driver I like the front wheel drive and the fuel mileage of the 3.8. Whadduya think?
probably a fine car. a little surprised they bring that much.
That's a good $1000 more than a same-year P71. We have a N/A 3.8 in her 01 GP GT and it gets the exact same mileage as the N/A 4.6 in my P71 so there's no gas savings. Hell, $3500 will get you a clean GTP with a blower and the same mileage!
Beware of FWD Impala ex cop cars, they have chronic trans issues
Yeah, my Olds Intrigue with the 3.8 pulls 26 on the highway, I think I had a multi-hour trip hit 27 once in over eight years of ownership. In-town is pretty lame at something in the teens.
The 9C1 Impala is probably the only other W-body car I'd buy besides an Intrigue, the Grand Prix seemed cheaper and more plasticy inside with horrible red gauges and the Buicks were just too dorky for my tastes. Not that the Intrigue isn't dorky...
Thanks guys, one place has a couple of P71's for about $1500. You're making it awful tempting. I know the Fords are dead stone reliable, but just not real familiar with the Impalas. The dealer that has the bulk of the Impalas/crowns that I'm looking at talked up the Impalas pretty well. We were both in the used car biz for years, and I have known him for a long time, but I really appreciate all the help I can get! Are the trans problems as bad as in the Taurus/Sable?
From what I hear it is more prevalent in the 9C1 due to the harsh Police usage, but quite common in civilian cars also
yep, that trans is pretty junky.
On the other hand, the 4r70 in the p71s is honestly one of the BEST tramsmissions you can get in a car that size, period. It is very sturdy stock and can be built to hold more.
This is coming from a guy who used to work in a trans shop. 4r70 was one of the best things ford had going in that time period, and thats all-inclusive. One of the other ones was the ford GT. 
Im with the others here in doubting the 9c1 fwd impala as being desireable in any way. Id rather have the gtps, that way i have more fun and an excuse when the trans takes a dump.
Or do what i wanted to do and noone ever does.. buy an sc3.8 LSS. :p
Starting to hi-jack my own thread, but it's looking more towards a P71. Is the rack & pinion '03 and up much better handling than earlier? Now I see an old '90 crown on CL in my town for $900. Might be fun to thrash around. Too old though. Someone please tell me no!
beware any used cop cars.
p71's have their share of trans issues as well, it seems like everyone on the vic bulletin board has theirs rebuilt by 100k.
stock for stock - discount p71's claim because he has his computer tuned and some other things done and gets better mileage than any other p71 on the planet - the impala is going to give you 7-9mpg highway better.
my 99 p71 - all stock unmodified, stock tires, completely tuned up and in perfect running condition - gets at best ever measured 100% highway with the cruise set at 68 - 22mpg. mostly combined i get 17 and have read as low as 14 in the winter.
4.6 vs 3800 - they both run forever, but the 3800 has enough threads for the spark plugs and doesnt have a 20 foot long timing chain with tensioners that have plastic tracks to wear through. neither is impressive for power and the only reason the 4.6 is decent in a p71 is the gearing - they have no torque.
i'm not a fan of either car. i've had now 3 p71's and a few varied w bodies.
the novelty of driving an ex patrol car wears off in a few months, right after you repaint it and put new wheels on it and realize you are putting money into a stripped down optionless car that some cop beat the crap out of and that 75k miles may as well be 275k for as long as the cars sit and idle.
In reply to patgizz:
Blasphemy!
But really, when shopping 4.6 panthers I started looking for civilian LX (P74?) models rather than P71s. Likely to have been grandpa driven and pampered with equal or better power and handling than the cop cars.
patgizz wrote: beware any used cop cars. p71's have their share of trans issues as well, it seems like everyone on the vic bulletin board has theirs rebuilt by 100k. stock for stock - discount p71's claim because he has his computer tuned and some other things done and gets better mileage than any other p71 on the planet - the impala is going to give you 7-9mpg highway better. my 99 p71 - all stock unmodified, stock tires, completely tuned up and in perfect running condition - gets at best ever measured 100% highway with the cruise set at 68 - 22mpg. mostly combined i get 17 and have read as low as 14 in the winter. 4.6 vs 3800 - they both run forever, but the 3800 has enough threads for the spark plugs and doesnt have a 20 foot long timing chain with tensioners that have plastic tracks to wear through. neither is impressive for power and the only reason the 4.6 is decent in a p71 is the gearing - they have no torque. i'm not a fan of either car. i've had now 3 p71's and a few varied w bodies. the novelty of driving an ex patrol car wears off in a few months, right after you repaint it and put new wheels on it and realize you are putting money into a stripped down optionless car that some cop beat the crap out of and that 75k miles may as well be 275k for as long as the cars sit and idle.
quoted for harsh truth
I have owned nearly 20 CV, GM and TC vehicles and cannot dispute anything said above.
Civilian 4.6 Fords however always run to 250 to 300K in my experience
For the record, I was talking in-town mileage, which plain sucks tune or no tune on both cars.
I am no 4.6 fan. I love the 3.8 much, much more. The "regular" 3800 cars are much better (we even spoke with our wallets and bought one) but the trans is definitely an issue. I hear on the GP clubs that the model change over (04?) to the Gen V GTP's resulted in a much better trans.
As for the 4R70W, it's a great trans hampered by a crappy motor. If you drive like a Grandpa with a tune you can get decent highway mileage but as soon as you crack 65 it's all over. Mine has 124K and I do this with it:
It's all about pricing though. The whole draw of a P71 (or the older 9C1 back in the day) was that it was cheap to buy and maintain. The 03+'s have a completely different frame, suspension, brakes, and rack and is a great platform (rack & pinion, Ford stole the brakes for the 05+ Mustang). The 01-02's (like mine) still have the PI 4.6 @240HP. The 2000 and older ones are plain anemic @185 or so and are the same price, so there's really no reason to get them.
Now, if you want loads of fun for super cheap, the old box Vic's are where it's at. John picked up a black MIB look-alike with a 351. It has a 4Bbl and rebuilt AOD now and it's going to be fun. Unfortunately the trans rebuilt put him over the budget of my car and his mileage will be in the single-digit range. Gotta compromise somewhere.
Thanks for all the honest input. I'm going today to check out a few, see which I like better after driving, or see if I like them at all. 2 of the Impalas were used as inmate transfer cars so maybe they didn't spend as much time parked and idling. Yeah, right.
I drove an 88 P71 back in the day as a company car; it was unstoppable and, for all I know, is still running today. I also drove a new 2004 9C1 Impala for a couple of weeks; it was a perfect city car and felt as unbreakable as the Ford used to. Mileage on the 9C1 Impalas will never be great because of the numerically higher final drive; it's not a huge increase, but it's real. On the other hand, it jumps just fine when you need it to. That said, our used 2000 civilian Impala ate its transmission at almost exactly 100,000 miles, and obviously we're not alone in that experience. I'd happily buy a used 9C1 Impala if I were in the market, but I'd budget for an immediate trans upgrade.
I've bought some of those 4T65's over the years. The good news is they're pretty cheap and easy to find used. Generally around $350 for one with low miles on it, and always available locally. Do the 9C1's have different gearing? My experience with cars that have the 3800 has always been that they get terrific highway mileage.
I'd refute a little (not all) of what patgizz had to say, though by now we've been over all this a million times.
Firstly, when my 2002 P71 was stock, it knocked down a little better than 25mpg more than once on the interstate. 18-19 in town. And secondly, I don't think the 4R70's give up too often. In fact I think they're pretty stout. I could go into all kinds of anecdotal stories you don't have time to read, or I could just leave it out there as my opinion. But long story short, I wouldn't particularly worry about that aspect.
The only real data I can locate this minute is for 2006: the 9C1 Impala had a 3.29 final drive -- but that was with the 3.9 engine, not the 3.8 we're talking about.
It's not apples-to-apples, but the civilian 2009 Impala (with a 3.5 engine) has a 2.86 final drive.
Meanwhile, over in Dearborn (well, St. Thomas, ON, actually) don't P71s come with a choice of two final drives ("city" vs. "highway patrol")? Something like a 3.07 and a 3.23 or so? That might explain the different mileage experiences we're hearing about.
Dont worry about the 4r70 unless it hasnt been maintained. The most common thing that fails on them is 4th gear clutches and thats usually from people towing trailers in 4th pushing 35" tires on stock gears in their f150 with a total GCVW of 10000 lbs and no trans cooler.
Trans problems in the W-body cars is why I've changed the fluid twice already and I'm late for a third change, just under 120,000 on the car. For the most part the trans has been okay to me although it has sometimes decided to shift extremely hard into second under light throttle. We're talking second gear scratch with maybe a 33% throttle opening, that kind of banging into second, but it only did that a few times and it was a couple years ago.
Right now I've got an ignition switch issue where it's not properly powering the automatic headlights (no override in the Olds, so I just leave them on and hear the relay clicking randomly) and the HVAC control head loses power. Punching the dashboard a couple times brings it back, and I'm talking about over the ignition key area, no where near the HVAC controls. Come on paychecks, get me some money for something different...
I looked at 4 impalas yesterday. The dealer I know had three of them, no p71s left. All three were junk. The other one I looked at ('03 with 87k) was really clean drove great. Really tight and quiet inside, no rattles squeaks,etc. It doesn't look like it ever had a seat divider bolted in, and no holes in the dash where stuff was bolted on either, and the rear doors and windows work from inside? Good service record too. This one is still in the running. But today a guy that works for me offered me his '05 civic DX for what the dealer was going to give him for trade in ($3000). He bought it new and has just under 90K. I think I just found my new daily driver. Maybe I can get him to throw in the service for the new timing belt!....I love looking for cars, but I hate looking when I NEED one quick!
Eb4Prez wrote: I looked at 4 impalas yesterday. The dealer I know had three of them, no p71s left. All three were junk. The other one I looked at ('03 with 87k) was really clean drove great. Really tight and quiet inside, no rattles squeaks,etc. It doesn't look like it ever had a seat divider bolted in, and no holes in the dash where stuff was bolted on either, and the rear doors and windows work from inside? Good service record too. This one is still in the running. But today a guy that works for me offered me his '05 civic DX for what the dealer was going to give him for trade in ($3000). He bought it new and has just under 90K. I think I just found my new daily driver. Maybe I can get him to throw in the service for the new timing belt!....I love looking for cars, but I hate looking when I NEED one quick!
good score. Better than any p71 ever built.
Especially as you can quiz him on the service history
And you can fire him if the civic goes to hell.
ignorant wrote: good score. Better than any p71 ever built.
You're berkleying nuts. 
I have never met a person with so much hate for inanimate object before in my life.
EB4,
The nice Impala was sounding promising, but that is a screaming deal on the Civic. I liked my 87 (totally different but hey, Honda quality). OTOH, the sister-in-law's 03 is a giant steaming pile of poo (cam recall after it ate the head, exhaust manifold split open, constant electrical problems) with under 75K miles...
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