Would it be good to have increased steering angle for a RWD rally cross/stage rally vehicle? Obviously, if you are that out of control you're doing something wrong, and not fast. But would having increased steering angle help you, should you get in that situation so it's not a complete spin out?
Steering Radius? are the wheels outside the kingpin center line? is it pushing, does it Spin out because of Over steer?
I can't think of any time where more steering angle would have helped me. You don't have enough speed in rallycross to get THAT sideways and still carry speed with a hard steering lock, really. If you're that out of sorts, just take out the inside cone and keep goign with a +1, really....
If you're at an extreme drift-style lock, you've already blown it anyhow and won't have enough traction to recover the rear end with any real momentum....so either just get on the throttle and go all the way around and keep going, or get on the throttle and try to save it.
For stage, I would definitely say no use for it. If you're so sidways to need additional steering travel, your rear end is already hitting a tree 
what car are we talking about?
Only in a Volvo 240. A quicker rack would make for a bigger improvement though.
Trackmouse wrote: Would it be good to have increased steering angle for a RWD rally cross/stage rally vehicle? Obviously, if you are that out of control you're doing something wrong, and not fast. But would having increased steering angle help you, should you get in that situation so it's not a complete spin out?
IME, at rallycross speeds, if you're at a point where you need a lot of steering angle, you're going to slide to a stop anyway.
Angle isn't important. Steering ratio is important. Fast steering means you can keep up with the car and avoid situations where you need a lot of steering angle...
I've never found a point where it would make me faster, but after a massive screw-up in a fast slalom, a little more steering angle would have been nice.
It would have let me get the rear end back before coming almost to a complete stop from 50+ mph (while being very sideways the whole time). And that would have saved me from putting a nice mark in the paint by punting one of those 4 ft tall, weighted base cones about 30 feet...
Basically, it would potentially let you recover from a big screw-up in less distance.
In reply to rslifkin:
That's what I experienced. Like i said, obviously no performance advantage here, but rather, a "save my ass, because I over cooked a corner".
Irish44j gave me good food for thought.
Car in question is a '85 celica with a 1uz and ford 8.8. (It pulls double duty as auto-x, and rally-x.)
irish44j wrote: If you're at an extreme drift-style lock, you've already blown it anyhow and won't have enough traction to recover the rear end with any real momentum....so either just get on the throttle and go all the way around and keep going, or get on the throttle and try to save it.
/the year I won the Duel in the Dirt. That is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. (Won the 2wd class, the 4wd class winner was already changing his tires to go home, so I won the top tier by default)
volvo850 has a tight angle steering rack (not the quickest rack, but a lot of travel) can you adapt it to your celica? the only issue I see, the more travel you have from side to side, the narrower the tyres have to be?
Not likely. I can do aw11 manual rack though. A quicker rack would be nice.
When you bend the steering arms (and you will!) you can get a set from Techno Toy Tuning which are stronger and will allow for increased steering angle- off the shelf solution!
Round track Dirt Guy's like to use a 2 to 1 steering quickner but you may need the power assist in the racing you do. you don't get more, but you can Stay "Ahead" of the slide.
The bigger issue is feedback through the wheel when sliding across bumps. The same feedback that makes an AE86 a joy to drive darn near rips your thumbs off if you're not careful.
Most suspensions won't allow more steering angle due to wheel house clearances.
mazdeuce wrote: The bigger issue is feedback through the wheel when sliding across bumps. The same feedback that makes an AE86 a joy to drive darn near rips your thumbs off if you're not careful.
that's why you NEVER drive with your thumbs through the spokes. Take a cue from the guys running Baja, when on the dirt do not put your thumbs in the way of the spokes.
I have run out of steering lock once. It was semi-intentional. Definitely not the fast way around a corner. https://youtu.be/iAfg9cTkDTs?t=25s
mad_machine wrote:mazdeuce wrote: The bigger issue is feedback through the wheel when sliding across bumps. The same feedback that makes an AE86 a joy to drive darn near rips your thumbs off if you're not careful.that's why you NEVER drive with your thumbs through the spokes. Take a cue from the guys running Baja, when on the dirt do not put your thumbs in the way of the spokes.
I would've lost thumbs multiple times offroading by now otherwise. I even got a "steering wheel burn" one time from wheel ripping action. You also keep your thumbs outside the wheel in demo derby for the same reason.
I agree that more lock could help you stay out of a spin, but it won't make your fastest runs faster.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: When you bend the steering arms (and you will!) you can get a set from Techno Toy Tuning which are stronger and will allow for increased steering angle- off the shelf solution!
After seeing the horribly engineered parts they sell for RX-7s, I wouldn't trust them to make a sticker properly.
All you have to do is shorten the distance from tie rod to A-arm ball joint. A quick google search revealed these interesting solutions
Or you can do it the "right" way and buy special steering knuckles for the drifter folk.
maschinenbau wrote: Or you can do it the "right" way and buy special steering knuckles for the drifter folk.
Doing it the "right" way also involves either moving the steering rack fore/aft position or using offset tie rods to maintain proper Ackermann geometry. There's nothing inherently wrong with modified uprights though, once they're as strong as stock and the location of the new holes is correct.
And there is literally no room in the engine any to move the PS rack. No room behind the cross member either. Its stuffed as it is.
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