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Story by Robert Bowen • Photos as Credited
The launch of an all-new Corvette is a rare automotive event, heralding a new epoch of posters plastered on teenagers’ bedroom walls and raising the bar for nearly …
Perfect thread timing. I’m picking this up on Saturday:
The biggest downside to getting a C5 Z06 is the incessant level of crap I'm going to get from my son along the lines of "How many gold chains came with it?" and "Aren't you a little old for a mid-life crisis?" and "When do you get fitted for the toupee?"
I suppose all that E36 M3 will stop after the first track day...
People can joke all they want, but the stop watch (or a well driven ride) usually shuts up the jokes. I used to catch every Miata joke in the book from one of my friends until I took him for a ride. Had to pull the seat out of his cheeks, haha!
Fun fact, a 97 C5, in silver, was the first time I saw a car, and WANTED it. I was 13 at the time, going into Metro Center Mall, in Phoenix, with my parents. It was parked under one of the planter trees, in the oh-so-useful shade. All these years later, I still can't shake the occasional desire for one.
I do feel a bit concerned though, that a C5 would render my Supra a bit... deficient... due to the cheap ability to modify, and the admittedly better platform that the C5 started with, vs the Mk3 Supra. However, I saw one the other day, and for the first time, it struck me as a bit... dated. I don't know why, but I don't like it.
The article did leave out one of the most impressive C5's, the Dick Guldstrand, for 2003. Might have been considered an aftermarket car though...
Want to know how to tell if someone owns a Corvette?...
My favorite C5 fact that I rarely see:
GM engineers designed the chassis in such a way that the node when the body vibrates at it's natural frequency is at the drivers seat. This allowed them to tune the suspension stiffer without as much a compromise in ride quality, because even though the car is vibrating, the driver can't feel it.
I was in FSAE in college and read it in an SAE paper GM had published.
I have done numerous PCA and BMW CCA DEs in my C5Z, no one there cares you're in a Corvette except when you lap them, again :)
I had similar apprehensions about buying into Vette culture, but after the first session in the car I wish I had taken the decision years ago.
They aren't perfect cars, but they are pretty damned close if you don't look at the interior too hard.
When I lived in Colorado a good friend of mine bought a brand new C5. At the time I had a 240z, and one day we swapped cars for a canyon run. I was blown away by the Corvette, such a massive step up from the C4--- in just about every possible way.
It still impresses me that they can offer such amazing performance, but still deliver GREAT highway mpg, and be such good daily drivers. If I wasn't so attached to my E36 M3, I'd be shopping for one.
AnthonyGS said:Trans_Maro said:Want to know how to tell if someone owns a Corvette?...
Easy they will tell you..... multiple times. Same answer for anyone that’s ever completed an Ironman.
Or a vegan...
Regarding "easy to work on"...
I'm refreshing a 2002 Z06. The engine, cooling, suspension, and brakes were all cheap and easy. The interior wasn't too bad (race seat, harness bar). Everything was great - couldn't believe the performance per dollar!
But now I have to pull the drivetrain to replace all the rubber bits and clutch. The rear subframe has to come out followed by the entire diff+trans+torque tube.
I don't have access to a two-post lift or a corvette specialty shop. Just watched the GRM youtube stream on the C5 drivetrain... ugh.
Then there's the fuel smell which is probably a leak in one of the tanks or crossover tube... again the whole drivetrain has to come out to service.
Anybody done this on jackstands?
Even GRM took their C5Z to a shop.
But now I have to pull the drivetrain to replace all the rubber bits and clutch. The rear subframe has to come out followed by the entire diff+trans+torque tube.
I don't have access to a two-post lift or a corvette specialty shop. Just watched the GRM youtube stream on the C5 drivetrain... ugh.
I've done it on jackstands (tall ones). It's possible, and afterwards I felt it was easier than I had thought it would be. Go for it!
Vigo said: ... and afterwards I felt it was easier than I had thought it would be.
Isn't that always the case?
jv8 said:Regarding "easy to work on"...
I'm refreshing a 2002 Z06. The engine, cooling, suspension, and brakes were all cheap and easy. The interior wasn't too bad (race seat, harness bar). Everything was great - couldn't believe the performance per dollar!
But now I have to pull the drivetrain to replace all the rubber bits and clutch. The rear subframe has to come out followed by the entire diff+trans+torque tube.
I don't have access to a two-post lift or a corvette specialty shop. Just watched the GRM youtube stream on the C5 drivetrain... ugh.
Then there's the fuel smell which is probably a leak in one of the tanks or crossover tube... again the whole drivetrain has to come out to service.
Anybody done this on jackstands?
Even GRM took their C5Z to a shop.
I had the driveline out of my C5 more times than I could count in a regular 2 car suburban garage.
Few tips that help a lot:
Thats about all I have -first time took a while subsequent times I could get the whole thing apart in about 2 hours by myself.
The biggest issue with pulling the driveline out is getting it high enough in the air. I'd argue that it's easier than pulling the c-beam on a C4 corvette.
I was a bit surprised to see the CD of the C5 described as slippery. Mid 90s Audi A4, A6 and A8s, Lexus LS400, late 80s Trans Ams, and even the VW Passat B5 Wagon all have equal or better CDs. None of those are necessarily mpg focused nor performance vehicles.
No complaints about the looks here; still they always looked a bit like the engineers borrowed all the best design ideas from other 90s coupes which is why the look appeared dated so quickly into the next millennium.
Stop talking up the C5's!!!
I'm trying to resist buying one because I have too much going on right now and trying to maintain my 4th gen Camaro that's about 90% sorted. I know the C5 is faster but I just hpde and ax anyways so not trying to spend too much. Also in a few years when I might actually get one, prices will be higher than they should and whats left will be wore out!
93gsxturbo said:I had the driveline out of my C5 more times than I could count in a regular 2 car suburban garage.
Few tips that help a lot:
- Truck jackstands - the taller the better
- Don't be afraid to lift it multiple times with cribbing underneath or with a high lift jack to get it up in the air enough.
- Get a large transmission jack similar to Harbor Freight 60234 Don't try to do this with regular floor or transmission jacks.
- Drop the rear K frame first - don't use an impact on the K frame bolts. Always by hand.
- Remove the rear K frame with hubs and axles on it. Pop the axles out of the diff and unbolt the upper control arms and rear shocks from the chassis.
- Support the trans when the rear K frame comes out to keep from damaging the firewall
- Pull the trans out with the rear diff and torque tube attached
- Use some long pieces of allthread to get the torque tube restarted on the bellhousing during installation
Thats about all I have -first time took a while subsequent times I could get the whole thing apart in about 2 hours by myself.
Thanks for the advice! GRM should get you to do a video they can post as a companion to the existing "here we are at the specialty corvette shop getting $10K worth of work done to our $15K C5Z" video.
Thanks!
The C5 has gone on to greener pastures, I now enjoy a stock Viper as my fun car. As awesome as a fully built and boosted C5 was, it was not conducive to reliability. Basically I was able to find every weak link in the driveline one piece at a time.
Stock Viper on stock tires is awesome. Everything is durable and over-engineered at this horsepower level, speed is adequate, and it gets a lot of looks.
93gsxturbo said:As awesome as a fully built and boosted C5 was, it was not conducive to reliability. Basically I was able to find every weak link in the driveline one piece at a time.
In your experience, where is the reliability pain threshold for the C5 driveline? Is the stock 400 hp the limit? Or can it handle more without a frequent rebuild?
In reply to jv8 :
That's a loaded question, sticky tires, wheel hop and hard launches and you'll crack a stock case. The first thing to go in stick shift cars is the clutch, in my opinion it is barely adequate for stock power levels. Honestly there isn't a single HP failure point you can point to where the driveline just gives out although you could probably start a fight on the Corvette forum by asking.
jv8 said:93gsxturbo said:As awesome as a fully built and boosted C5 was, it was not conducive to reliability. Basically I was able to find every weak link in the driveline one piece at a time.
In your experience, where is the reliability pain threshold for the C5 driveline? Is the stock 400 hp the limit? Or can it handle more without a frequent rebuild?
My car was making 535 to the wheels on 93 pump gas and 595 on 100 octane. This was with an intercooled Vortec V3Si supercharger, longtubes, etc. Still had the stock cam and intake, could have made more with a bigger cam. At the first go of "big power" I put a twin disc clutch in it, that would let it hook and you could slip the clutch out, but it definitely took away some of the "fuse" of the stock or a single faced organic clutch. I also drove on Drag Radials all the time, so a less grippy tire would have helped preserve the driveline. As it was I rebuilt the entire driveline twice, ended up with a stock Coupe trans with as much of the Viper internals as I could fit into it - coupe trans had better gearing for big power. Started with a Z06 trans, that was great when I was N/A. Then added a Pfadt diff brace, snapped the output shaft off the Z06 trans, blew up one diff, blew up a half shaft, blew up a Z06 diff, added the ECS trans brace, rebuilt another Z06 diff with C6 internals, rebuilt the torque tube with Driveshaft Shop couplers and new bearings.
Doing it today I would go with a less aggressive clutch, run real street tires instead of drag radials on the street, definitely put a big cam in it, and just spend the money for a full 08+ C6 Z06 driveline swap with the TR6060 right out of the gate. Putting a TR6060 next to a T56 its night and day difference.
As it was after all my farting around I could have easily afforded a TR6060 and matching K frame and rear diff if I would have just laid down the lumber at the start of the project. Buy once cry once.
93gsxturbo said:I now enjoy a stock Viper as my fun car ... Stock Viper on stock tires is awesome.
I’ve been looking at getting an early Viper as my next track/race car. I know later models got better and better, but I love the looks of the original roadsters. And prices seem very reasonable even for cars with crazy low miles.
Years ago (maybe 2001?) I drove a Viper Coupe at Mosport. I wasn’t pushing hard enough to get any sense of how it handled. But I’m always shocked when people complain they don’t handle well.
Can they be made to balance well at/near the limit? Seems like there’s no reason they should be limited to street/drag use.
LanEvo said:93gsxturbo said:I now enjoy a stock Viper as my fun car ... Stock Viper on stock tires is awesome.
I’ve been looking at getting an early Viper as my next track/race car. I know later models got better and better, but I love the looks of the original roadsters. And prices seem very reasonable even for cars with crazy low miles.
Years ago (maybe 2001?) I drove a Viper Coupe at Mosport. I wasn’t pushing hard enough to get any sense of how it handled. But I’m always shocked when people complain they don’t handle well.
Can they be made to balance well at/near the limit? Seems like there’s no reason they should be limited to street/drag use.
So I have a 1995 Viper...RT/10 Roadster, since that was all they offered back then.
Roadsters suck unless you are 5' nothing - basically no way I would fit inside with a helmet, and my seal is lowered 3/4" from stock. I am 6'1 or so all torso. And if you are 5' nothing you can't reach the pedals. If your class requires no windows - congrats. If your class requires windows - well - the roadsters don't have any.
Driving dynamics suck. Its a big flexy turd. The hood feels like it is going to shake off going over bumps. Cowl shake is definitely present. Brakes are questionable. Way too much front brake bias, locks the fronts early for safety. There is a reason a lot of these rigs got wadded up.
Parts availability, especially body spares and go fast stuff, is nonexistent at this point for the Gen 1 (92-95) and getting thin for the Gen 2 (96-02).
My car is an excellent cruiser. Get it shined up, take it to shows, go to my friends' house for the sportsball match, take it for a long weekend in Wisconsin Dells (but you had better pack light and hope it doesn't rain). With luck and care, it may actually be worth more than I paid for it when I go to sell it in a few years.
Between the overall amount of suck (its a 35 year old design at this point) the lack of spares and parts availability (none) and the only mediocre performance (only 400 HP), in 2018 I would never suggest a Gen 1 or Gen 2 Viper as anything but a cruiser or collectors car.
93gsxturbo said:Roadsters suck unless you are 5' nothing - basically no way I would fit inside with a helmet, and my seal is lowered 3/4" from stock. I am 6'1 or so all torso.
Ha - I am 6'2" all torso and I sat in my neighbor's gen1 Viper and laughed... no way can I fit in one of those.
I view my C5Z as a disposable track car that still eats money while he will cruise in his collector car for a while and probably break even or better.
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