Install rear trailing arm bushings help - E21

Hey all.

Got some (what should be 40% harder) rubber trailing arm bushings, and about to run them in to the arms.

Liquid soap/soapy water solution to get them in, or is there some other magic lube to make it easier?  These are slightly offset, too, so easier it is to get them in, less chance of being "off" on orientation.

Easy is important.

Once I get these installed and get some inner tie rod ends that will work with the car (dudes at bimmerworld are AWESOME, btw, helping me get sorted out - they have have been added to my go-to list of vendors when I need parts for this thing), gonna go auto-x this thing.

Getting amped up, now.

Awesome! The best way I have found to do those is allthread, nuts, and some sockets. Get everything lined up, tighten the nuts down, and pull the bushings right in. Liquid soap has always worked for me. 

In my experience, the old ones are a lot harder to remove than the new ones are to insert. 

I usually use a light grease. Makes them easy to slide on and less likely to bind while in use.

gearheadE30 said:

Awesome! The best way I have found to do those is allthread, nuts, and some sockets. Get everything lined up, tighten the nuts down, and pull the bushings right in. Liquid soap has always worked for me. 

Installation is the reverse of removal, as all the instructions used to say.

I used my old air operated impact to get them out, I think I'll hand crank them on install.  Slow and steady, and all that.

Urethane seems like it would've been real easy at this point, but didn't want the squeaking that goes with it!  Is that still a thing?  Used to be a thing last time I did poly....

I've had poly RTABs in my 2002 for 25 years and never had a problem with squeaking. They're only coming out because I'm replacing them with UHMW adjustable pieces from Condor Speed Shop.

In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :

I had poly RTABs in one e30 for a while. It was fine for maybe a year and then started to get really creaky. Drove me completely nuts. The happy medium on that car (mix of track and DD) ended up being stiff poly subframe and diff mounts with stock rubber RTABs and then adjuster bolts welded in for tunability. 

Ninja edit- I have not used the umhw stuff in the rear, but to 02Pilot's point I replaced poly front control arm bushings with umhw on the 325ES and while a little harsher, there is zero noise. 

Way back when I put rubber bushings into TR6 trailing arms, I used Ru-glyde.

Side note: put them in the freezer overnight to shrink them slightly, it will help with installation.

gearheadE30 and 02Pilot, you guys are killing me.  The UHMW stuff seems really appealing.  I think the car at this point will be an occasional short trip car and autocross machine, and those seem like the way to go.

I wonder if there's a down side to making some front sway bar bushings for the E21.  I.e. would the transfer of additional "stress" to the brackets cause issues, since rubber and even poly has give that absorbs some of it.

JoeTR6 and gunner, I'll check it out.  Unless that UHMW stuff doesn't leave my brain, not much need to worry about it then.

In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :

The E21 has a different front suspension setup to the 2002, but unless there is some known weakness, I wouldn't hesitate to put poly or UHMW anywhere you want it. My car was 100% poly for decades and tens of thousands of miles, including eight years of regular autox and several rallies, without incident. I'm only refreshing it now because I had to do some unrelated work, and I want to redirect the car towards a little more comfort and more even tire wear (hence the adjustable RTABs) for longer trips; the existing poly bushings were still perfectly serviceable.

Well, offset rubber bushings are going to go in crooked, and freezing then and using soap makes no difference.

I'm not sure that bodes well for longevity, or whether or not they'd "self correct"and work themselves straight in the bores.

02Pilot, have you installed the Condor pieces yet?

The question is relative to whether or not they're easy enough to get to to in order to adjust them.

In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :

Not yet, but if they're anything like standard poly - and I suspect that they are - they'll slip in easily, at least compared to rubber.

Can you snap some pictures? I am assuming these are similar to the ones on the e30. 

I dont see how freezing rubber bushings would help in any way, I would say it makes it more difficult. 

I have installed Condor ones and they are quite easy to do. 

In reply to Slippery :

Nothing currently in an arm, I'm about to try one more time.  Going to ace hardware to see about a washer that will contact the rubber face and fit around the sleeve, such that the washer that hits the sleeve end also presses against the washer that hits the face of the rubber for equal pressure across the bushing.

The sleeve is the only thing pushed on to get it in the arm.  The rubber on that end sits high a mm or a touch more on one side, and on the opposite end it won't push through, by the same amount.

Since all of the force to push the rubber in is on the steel sleeve itself, I think the amount of give between the fat side and the skinny side is at play.   Not only does the bushing not push in square, that sleeve is tweaked inside the rubber bushing material.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Oh, the poly will go in easy enough, what I'm hoping is that for adjusting it, the little collars can be gotten to once in the car.

It'll only change it by a degree or so, and I'm just going to max out camber at install, but, if I do need a bit of adjustment for toe or something, hoping it's not a major pain to get it done once the car is back together.

If it's one of the large end bushings bigger than most sockets, they are often done by shops with a hydraulic press.  Barring that, I've used what is similar to a hub bearing press kit, but it'll depend on the diameter of the bushing. Available at H-F or Amazon.

I should say the reason this is happening is because to keep the orientation in the arm (and thus the camber/toe values equal side to side), I'm using a radial bearing to push the sleeve down to press them in (using thread rod, nuts, and washers method as a press - that part works well).

Driving  them  in with the nut/washer spins the bushing in the bore, and that would let them run down in pretty easily, but, once they're in,  it's impossible to get the offset oriented for camber/toe values.

So, I need a super slippery lube that won't degrade the rubber.

I wonder if some electricians monkey snot would work.

Open to suggestions for a last attempt here.

I'm wondering if I just shouldn't save myself the grief and get the Condor units.  Open to a vote on that as well!

If it were me, I'd either do the Condor pieces or get one of the weld-in adjuster setups and then use standard rubber bushings. I went with the former because I didn't want to drop the subframe, and I didn't feel comfortable welding it in place. The offset rubber is going to be a pain, though I can understand the temptation; I went back and forth on rubber vs. something firmer.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Yep, just tried the latest attempt, and while it sort of worked, it also twisted the bushing in the bore a little, so trying to get everything clocked correctly across all four pieces is going to be a bigger pain than it's worth.

Glad you mentioned Condor, I think the best option for what I want to accomplish.