Insurance cancelled?

I was just reading the October issue (yeah, I know. Most of you finished it already but I think my postman reads it then gives it to me) and I read the letter about the guy who put the FM turbo kit on his car then had his insurance company cancel his policy. That ticked me off just reading it. I'll tell you a similar story and how it ended.
I had an 86 CJ-7 that I just finished and was ready to insure and wanted full coverage. I drove it to my insurance company and they snapped the pics and all. Then I get that call a few days later that says, "we're terribly sorry doc, but we can't insure your Jeep because it has a winch on it. That shows that you intend to take it off road and we won't cover it." After letting my blood pressure come back down I said, "well, those 4 letters on the tailgate show that I intend to take if off road, the J-E-E-P. Is it the winch or the 35" tires, the lockers front and rear, the full cage, the 4:1 t-case, the 4" of lift and trimmed fenders, the on-board air compressor or the other stuff?" She said it was the winch. So I countered "so, normally I am covered off road as long as it's on a ORV trail right?" (I checked with them years before on another Jeep) "Yes" was the response. So, I said "so without the winch you'll cover me. So, let's say I'm climbing a VERY steep and rocky hill. I'm 3/4 of the way up and can't make it the last 100 feet. Would You rather I try to back down the hill in a Jeep that YOU are insuring and willing to pay for or connect a steel cable to the tree at the top of the hill and safely winch my way to the top?" She really had nothing to say except that the policy stated such about the winch.
So, I called back later and asked her to remind the powers that be that I had my renters insurance through them when I had an apartment, I've had every house I owned insured through them, I've had every car I've EVER owned insured through them and currently I have 5 cars insured through them. If they we unwilling to insure this Jeep, I'd cancel all my insurance and they'd never see me again.
They decided to insure the Jeep.
I don't know if the letter writer is reading this, but if you have any history with those pricks, try that.

I think your threat worked well. It gave you enough time to leisurely shop for another company.

Please don't tell my insurance agent what I was doing last weekend, WITHOUT lockers, four inch lift, etc. and WITH a guy in a TJ at the top of the hill dragging me with his wench.

I think I just got addicted to a whole new form of motorsport.

My sister-in-law had a bit of an adventure with her modified Jeep on Moab Rim. A tire rubbed a hole through a braided brake line, and the disc brake conversion in the rear wasn't getting enough fluid pressure to stop the truck as it rolled backwards off a 5' drop after it had a bit of a run to get some speed. She's just lucky she didn't take the 1000' dive into the river.

Illustrated the difference in attitudes between racers and offroaders pretty well, all the idiots with her knew about the abraded brake line and that the rear brakes (including the handbrake) didn't really work. They took a truck with known problems on a very difficult and dangerous trail. I would have failed this thing to run an autocross on a first-gear course. I got to retrieve the truck, bringing it down the trail with one functioning brake and a strap hooking me to another truck behind. I filled a sheet of paper with obvious problems with the truck. Idiots. I know not all offroaders are like this because I is one and I know what the good guys are like, but there's quite a difference in attitude in general.

Anyhow...the insurance company covered her because Moab Rim is an OHV trail. Amazing.

This is not helping be resit the urge to buy a jeep. Hmm... TJ or WJ?

I have to agree with Keith. There is a different mentality. Maybe it's because off-roading is more of a hobby that is generally more accessible to the average guy where racing seems more, elite than most blue-collar folks can aspire to. Anybody with a 4X4 anything can hit a trail and nobody will expect the truck to meet a minimum standard but (they think) you need a real "race car" to go racing. Personally I was out wheeling with a bunch of Jeep folks and a moron in a TURD of a Bronco II came with us. He had bald tires, wonky suspension and an attitude about wheeling to match. We asked him not to come with us. He didn't take it very well but oh well.

neon4891 wrote: This is not helping be resit the urge to buy a jeep. Hmm... TJ or WJ?

If you really want to do some wheeling and don't need tons of space, get a TJ. You can't go wrong. They are a bit tougher than the WJ or ZJ and are just plain better on the trail. If you need a high WAP (wife approval factor) then a WJ, ZJ or XJ would really do much better than you expect as snowdoggie can attest to. BTW snowdoggie, I'm looking for an XJ right now.
I've been addicted to wheeling for 15 years. At one point I owned a 46 CJ-2A,. 2 1986 CJ-7's, an XJ and a WJ for my wife.

In reply to Snowdoggie:

where was that at? i'd like to get out to barnwell mountain sometime this fall or next spring.

Keith wrote: My sister-in-law had a bit of an adventure with her modified Jeep on Moab Rim. A tire rubbed a hole through a braided brake line, and the disc brake conversion in the rear wasn't getting enough fluid pressure to stop the truck as it rolled backwards off a 5' drop after it had a bit of a run to get some speed. She's just lucky she didn't take the 1000' dive into the river. Illustrated the difference in attitudes between racers and offroaders pretty well, all the idiots with her knew about the abraded brake line and that the rear brakes (including the handbrake) didn't really work. They took a truck with known problems on a very difficult and dangerous trail. I would have failed this thing to run an autocross on a first-gear course. I got to retrieve the truck, bringing it down the trail with one functioning brake and a strap hooking me to another truck behind. I filled a sheet of paper with obvious problems with the truck. Idiots. I know not all offroaders are like this because I is one and I know what the good guys are like, but there's quite a difference in attitude in general. Anyhow...the insurance company covered her because Moab Rim is an OHV trail. Amazing.

The Lone Star Jeep Club had a list of things I had to get before I hit the trail. They checked for tow hooks front and back and gave my XJ the once over before they let me loose. It was a good thing too because the tow hooks got used twice that weekend getting me wenched out of a couple of tight spots. I got some good instruction driving out of a few other spots. I didn't really see any vehicles in bad shape or with bald tires. Overall they were a great bunch and I will be going out with them again soon.

I was really surprised at what a stock XJ could do.

Strizzo wrote: In reply to Snowdoggie: where was that at? i'd like to get out to barnwell mountain sometime this fall or next spring.

That was Barnwell, out in Gilmer, Texas.

In reply to Snowdoggie:

sweet, thought it looked like east texas red clay.

i went to HS in nearby Kilgore.

DrBoost wrote:

neon4891 wrote: This is not helping be resit the urge to buy a jeep. Hmm... TJ or WJ?

If you really want to do some wheeling and don't need tons of space, get a TJ. You can't go wrong. They are a bit tougher than the WJ or ZJ and are just plain better on the trail. If you need a high WAP (wife approval factor) then a WJ, ZJ or XJ would really do much better than you expect as snowdoggie can attest to. BTW snowdoggie, I'm looking for an XJ right now. I've been addicted to wheeling for 15 years. At one point I owned a 46 CJ-2A,. 2 1986 CJ-7's, an XJ and a WJ for my wife.

I love XJs. I would still like to bring a lowered one to the Challenge someday. Bobby Archer used to road race in an MJ.

http://www.archerracing.com/history.htm

Illustrated the difference in attitudes between racers and offroaders pretty well

I guess you're not racing with the same people I've raced with.

Snowdoggie wrote: The Lone Star Jeep Club had a list of things I had to get before I hit the trail. They checked for tow hooks front and back and gave my XJ the once over before they let me loose. It was a good thing too because the tow hooks got used twice that weekend getting me wenched out of a couple of tight spots. I got some good instruction driving out of a few other spots. I didn't really see any vehicles in bad shape or with bald tires. Overall they were a great bunch and I will be going out with them again soon. I was really surprised at what a stock XJ could do.

I recommend wheeling with a club. You get the experience and safety in numbers and like the Lone Star folks, when I wheel with a club they expect to see certain things or you aren't going.
And yes, I was amazed the first (through 50th) time I took an XJ out. Simply amazing.

BTW, I think this thread has officially been hijacked.

Snowdoggie wrote: ...at the top of the hill dragging me with his wench.

They do make some strong wenches these days.

Appleseed wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote: ...at the top of the hill dragging me with his wench.

They do make some strong wenches these days.

Still can't believe they cancelled his insurance for having one of those in the car.

Insurance underwriters are idiots. The company I work for has a policy that we are to report all "performance" modifications to underwriting for review because it means the owner is likely street racing. That means a cold air intake and some nice wheels. They've been known to have people at drag races snapping pictures of competitor's license plates to see if they are insured by us. Cancellation usually follows.

Needless to say, I have a bad habit of overlooking modifications...

It's a good company other than that, for the most part. I'm waiting for one of the bigwhigs to ask me some day if I'd recommend them to my friends, or why I haven't had anyone call in with my code for quotes. I have that answer all ready for them. Because, essentially, they wouldn't insure me. My tagged Spec E30 would give underwriting a brain seizure.

hmm, so you work for the lizard?

i read something a while back that was supposed to help parents figure out if their kids might be street racing their cars. some of the "things to watch for" were laughable at best

Snowdoggie wrote: .... WITH a guy in a TJ at the top of the hill dragging me with his wench.

ZOMG..

I knows wench's carry beer

It must be one hell of a large wench to pull a jeep.

Strizzo wrote: hmm, so you work for the lizard? i read something a while back that was supposed to help parents figure out if their kids might be street racing their cars. some of the "things to watch for" were laughable at best

ooh, ooh! post a link. that would be a great read.

suprf1y wrote:

Illustrated the difference in attitudes between racers and offroaders pretty well

I guess you're not racing with the same people I've raced with.

Guess not. Everyone I meet at the track is far more concerned with safety than the majority of off-roaders. It could be because of the magnitude of the consequences - off-road crashes tend to be slower and less likely to end with a trip to a hospital, but when this particular Jeep blew out its brake line two people took a helicopter ride to Grand Junction to get fixed, one of whom had the Jeep roll over his chest. Racers learned their lessons hard about safety 40 years ago and there's a lot of institutional memory. A lot of the Jeepers around here seem to think it's a cool adventure to have a mechanical failure. It's not a money thing, there's more tied up in a lot of those rigs than there are in the cars that come to my track days.

As I said, they're not all like that. I've been a trail leader at the Land Rover National Rally a few times, and if someone showed up with a blatant problem such as stainless steel brake lines with the teflon sheath exposed, peer pressure would keep them off the trail instead of encouraging them to drive something dangerous.

I once saw a classified listing for an old Series Land Rover that was equipped with an "electric wench". The mind boggles.

In reply to DrBoost:

searched all over and can't find it. i did find another reference to it on another forum talking about the lizard. it basically stated that if your kid has installed an intake or strut tower bar in their car, they're probably street racing and you should ground them for life and then let us know so we can triple your insurance rates. or something.

DrBoost wrote: If you need a high WAP (wife approval factor) then a WJ, ZJ or XJ would really do much better than you expect as snowdoggie can attest to. BTW snowdoggie, I'm looking for an XJ right now.

I'm pretty sure that good tires on the WJ I'm thinking about would allow me to tackle any I can throw at it, seeing as I have already driven most of it in my neons. The thing that killed me tho was the mud pit...

And kayak and bike transport duties would be better suited to the WJ than a soft top wrangler would be.

Strizzo wrote: In reply to DrBoost: searched all over and can't find it. i did find another reference to it on another forum talking about the lizard. it basically stated that if your kid has installed an intake or strut tower bar in their car, they're probably street racing and you should ground them for life and then let us know so we can triple your insurance rates. or something.

I'm screwed when I try to find insurance in a few months, aren't I?

Or is an E30 old enough to avoid all of the "OMG your kid is street racing because the exhaust is shiny" crap?