Interest in Miata-based kit cars?

Developing the whole package isn't that much of a stretch if you're going for a level of completeness similar to a Cobra. Mazda did all the hard stuff. Body, an underlying space frame to which all the Miata parts bolt, then interior trimmings.

As an aside,anyone seriously considering any kit-car should go to the Carlisle show next spring. There's everything under the sun right there to look at and sit in. Some were even allowing test drives last year. I spent a considerable amount of time looking at details on many of them just to understand what's involved should I want to build my own locost one day.AND, the Import show is pretty good,too!

That's a Ginetta G200, and they were built with Miata chassis and drivetrain components from the factory.

The earlier Ginetta cars would be a good way to go - but I don't think you want a kit that reminds you of a Miata body as it defeats the purpose (G200, why?).

You pretty much offer a body that bolts to an existing frame, keeps the purchase price low, and using Miata seats and trim keeps cost down; windshield could be an issue - from a 356/550?

The early cars look Cobra-esque, so the shape is an appealing 60's sports racer look, the locost type guys have an alternative that looks much nicer.

For those who love small and lightweight, your competitors seem to be only the 550 guys (I don't know if the 356 kits are still out there) and they seem to be on the $20K end of things.

The market wouldn't be as big as the FFR/Cobra's, but it seems to me that you could get to a much lower price point for a finished car. You're still missing the "widely known" aspect, but, if you position between locost and Cobra, enough to make a buck?

A "Ginetta" that could be finished for not a lot more than what I have in my old 320i (and it's not much to look at, honestly) - and is cooler looking and lighter is way tempting.

So no interest in doing a bird cage?

Come on, motorcycles and those Can-Am Spyder things are all the rage around here; why not a completely open air miata like an Atom except with only fenders.

RUSSOM wrote: why not a completely open air miata like an Atom except with only fenders.

There is merit in this idea!

RUSSOM wrote: So no interest in doing a bird cage? Come on, motorcycles and those Can-Am Spyder things are all the rage around here; why not a completely open air miata like an Atom except with only fenders.

Already done and posted earlier in this thread. Exocet.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/interest-in-miata-based-kit-cars/28380/page2/

Ian F wrote:

RUSSOM wrote: So no interest in doing a bird cage? Come on, motorcycles and those Can-Am Spyder things are all the rage around here; why not a completely open air miata like an Atom except with only fenders.

Already done and posted earlier in this thread. Exocet. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/interest-in-miata-based-kit-cars/28380/page2/

Yeah...but it could be better looking and still just as simple, light, cheap, and safe. I'm seriously talking about just connecting the dots of what we saw in the first pic.

When you look at the Exocet, "connecting the dots" is basically what they did... plus a radiator... which is kinda necessary... and then used a minimum of plastic to cover the moving bits... how it looks is simply a result of form following function.

Has anyone thrown out the idea of a D-type Jaguar ? I've never seen one in the flesh, but it doesn't look all that big. Maybe you get a properly proportioned replica body/frame to accept the Miata mechanical bits.

Ian F wrote: When you look at the Exocet, "connecting the dots" is basically what they did... plus a radiator... which is kinda necessary... and then used a minimum of plastic to cover the moving bits... how it looks is simply a result of form following function.

This theory is probably the simplest. And as mentioned in the LS1+Miata thread, make the kit readily accept a V8 and you're on to something!

Dio makes an interesting kit resembling a Maserati birdcage:

Here is a phantom drawing my stepdad did when he did some artwork for them:

I've seen a few of these in person, with 4 cylinder and v8 powerplants.

Kit info: http://www.diocars.com/gpage.html

+1 for the Austin Healey idea.

My neighbor wanted to build one about ten years ago, but he bought a 289 Cobra replica instead, because, "the AH replica is nothing but a Pinto underneath. Who spends $30K+ to wind up with a Pinto in a party frock!?"

The man had a point.

A Miata-based early Healey 100 could be very, very cool. Bonus points if you could find a way to incorporate the nice Miata convertible top without making the Healey replica look goofy.

I just checked a few numbers to see how the wheelbase and track line up - those being essentially fixed dimensions if the plan is to simply drop a new frame and body on the Miata parts. Not surprisingly, even a small modern car is wider than a vintage one.

C-type
WB: 96"
track 51"/51"

D-type
WB: 90"
track: 50"/50"

AH 100
WB: 90"
track: 49"/50.7"

Miata
WB: 89.2"
track: 55.5"/56.2"

In reply to Keith:

Old cars tucked their wheels waaaay into the wheelwells. The more modern look of a wheel that is flush (or hellaflush ) with the outside of the car would allow Miata suspension to work with almost normal classic car proportions.

If this AH 100/4 is any indication, they are expensive to build! $100k??

http://twoseatsorless.com/2010/05/le-mans-specification-1956-austin-healey-100-4-m-bn2/

You don't want to do a replica of a cheap car!

MrJoshua wrote: In reply to Keith: Old cars tucked their wheels waaaay into the wheelwells. The more modern look of a wheel that is flush (or hellaflush ) with the outside of the car would allow Miata suspension to work with almost normal classic car proportions.

As a guy who has just put a Miata suspension under an older car - it's not quite that easy The fenders tended to encapsulate the wheel, and if you push it outboard by 4" then you put the wheel right into the fender itself. See the D-type below. So you have to reshape the arches, and that can have a major effect on the look of the car. It's definitely a challenge, and I think the way you handle this sort of detail can make or break a kit. Note the fender flares on the Sebring A-H replica. Also, note that the wheels on the A-H 100 above appear to be nicely flush.

Another example. MGB GT on stock axles with SAAB wheels. In this case, the car is actually jacked up in the rear.

Same car, proper ride height. The SAAB wheels actually tuck under a bit more than stock.

Same car on Miata suspension, widening the track by 4". You can see what had to be done to the fenders in order to allow for full suspension movement. The ride height is the same as the previous picture.

Keith,

I did it too. 5" wider track on the Miata suspension and 40 mm wider tires than a stock spit and I could have gotten away with a mild roll.

In reply to RUSSOM:

I'd say that this guy pulled off a good job of "connecting the dots":

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8332

Bonus points for building it in a shipping container!

Mark

subrew wrote: Dio makes an interesting kit resembling a Maserati birdcage: Here is a phantom drawing my stepdad did when he did some artwork for them: I've seen a few of these in person, with 4 cylinder and v8 powerplants. Kit info: http://www.diocars.com/gpage.html

I remember these guys, they were the ones (or did the truck for the guy) whining on Pinks about racing the Bully Dog truck and who got the most lengths. I think the quote was something like "we don't have a booth at SEMA."

Last pass on the Bully Dog truck was done without water in the radiator.

Neat concept though. I think something like this would also go over well as a 53 Ford on a Ranger.

Some original cars were too small to begin with. Keeping the same shape and scaling it up a little to fit the Miata chassis in many cases wouldn't detract from the end result. A friend is working on bringing back the Griffith brand. He's using Miata suspension and steering, but with a tube frame. He's also making the cars slightly larger to make the interior more comfortable. You can't tell unless you put the new one next to the original, and even then it doesn't look bad. Just something to consider.

In reply to Keith:

Throw some Omni fender flares on that thing...DONE

In reply to FlightService:

That kit seems pretty reasonably priced. I wonder what the average build cost is.

mainlandboy wrote: In reply to RUSSOM: I'd say that this guy pulled off a good job of "connecting the dots": http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8332 Bonus points for building it in a shipping container!

Yep - nice car. ...and buuilt in a 8x20 container? With a flux-core welder? Damn... I suck.

wonder how a Morgan kit would work, perhaps a +4 or a +8? mounting the front shocks might be a bit of a challenge, but it's possible to cantilever mount a shock with a three-bolt upper mount, just run a 1:1 ratio rocker and run the same angle on the pushrod in the kit as the Miata had from the factory to keep roughly the same front suspension kinematics so that Miata suspension upgrades should work mostly the same on the kit as they would on a Miata so that someone who wanted to track the kit would be able to dig from the wealth of Miata setup knowledge. track width shouldn't be much of an issue, but if it is, there's nothing that says you have to keep the dimensions of the original, either widen it a little bit or scale up the entire kit until the track width matches up roughly with that of a Miata, then increase the width to suit so that the visual difference wasn't quite so drastic

Well... the #1 problem with a Morgan +4 or +8 kit is... well... Morgan still exists and still makes those cars... although mainly the +8 version.

http://www.morgancars-usa.com/