Interesting towing videos

Twin_Cam wrote: I still don't know why anyone who tows less than 5000 lbs. needs a giant 1-ton dually.

I don't NEED my C-30 Dooley and I rarely tow anything, but I have it anyway.

I'm trying to find a trailer that is even close to my tow vehicle weight

Note the short rear overhang, one major reason I wanted a Coach and didn't like Schoolies

I personally don't go by the school of thought that a properly loaded trailer is in any way something you think "isn't even there". Piloting any trailer vehicle combination is more dangerous. The margin of forgiveness may be higher with a F250 pulling a 3000lb boat but you still have nearly 11,000lbs that you are piloting down the road and need to think about that at all times.

Thank you.

I just had an argument with a friend of mine about him towing with full size trucks and me towing with 3000 lb family cars.

I was telling him that until very recently (i.e. trucks that still cost $40k), 1ton dually pickups didnt even 60-0 within 50 feet of a normal midsize car.

You can put 1000 extra lbs on a midsize car before it stops as badly as an EMPTY dually, and there's a fair chance it will still handle better!

I'll never contest that there comes a point where it is much safer to use a giant truck than a normal car. The only thing im trying to push is that that point is a LOT higher than most people think!

Giant trucks can make you FEEL safer by making you LESS AWARE of the forces in play, but they are not ACTUALLY safer until you start talking about a pretty large amount of weight.

To be fair, plenty of cars qualify as the requisite amount of weight.

After seeing what people tow with here, I've pretty much figured: If a 2-cyl, 2-stroke, 600cc Trabant can haul a trailer piled high with scrap metal to the recycler then, by my calculations, (lets see.... carry the "one"...) my old 3/4 ton Chevy Scottsdale could have pulled the USS Abraham Lincoln into dry dock! (Dang if I didn't sell her before I got the chance to try)

Funny: My neighbor just pulled away in his Golf with a Lada on a flatbed trailer in tow. (There's a rally next weekend about 45 minutes away, I'm guessing he's going to try to get some seat time)

Vigo wrote:

I personally don't go by the school of thought that a properly loaded trailer is in any way something you think "isn't even there". Piloting any trailer vehicle combination is more dangerous. The margin of forgiveness may be higher with a F250 pulling a 3000lb boat but you still have nearly 11,000lbs that you are piloting down the road and need to think about that at all times.

Thank you. I just had an argument with a friend of mine about him towing with full size trucks and me towing with 3000 lb family cars. I was telling him that until very recently (i.e. trucks that still cost $40k), 1ton dually pickups didnt even 60-0 within 50 feet of a normal midsize car. You can put 1000 extra lbs on a midsize car before it stops as badly as an EMPTY dually, and there's a fair chance it will still handle better! I'll never contest that there comes a point where it is much safer to use a giant truck than a normal car. The only thing im trying to push is that that point is a LOT higher than most people think! Giant trucks can make you FEEL safer by making you LESS AWARE of the forces in play, but they are not ACTUALLY safer until you start talking about a pretty large amount of weight. To be fair, plenty of cars qualify as the requisite amount of weight.

One thing is 3/4-ton & up pickups (and semis to a larger extent) are built to tow and carry heavy loads, most cars/mini vans/smaller suvs weren't. Plus the trucks have excess braking & suspension capacity the other vehicles don't have. Plus I have driven a few duallys (91 F350 4dr, 79 GMC & others) that stopped as good as most cars even when empty. You just need to be good with the brake pedal, slamming on it isn't the best way to stop.

Just aboiut all tow vehicles in Australia are based on unibody sedan chassis, we got very few full size trucks. I used a Falcon wagon for years.

that stopped as good as most cars even when empty.

Try measuring it. The people who do it constantly, for a living (lots of practice), have, and it is not pretty.

At least not until you get into the nearly-brand-new stuff. Which does impress me.

Just aboiut all tow vehicles in Australia are based on unibody sedan chassis, we got very few full size trucks. I used a Falcon wagon for years.

Yeah, ive noticed this whole 'carry as much inertia as possible into an emergency situation' thing seems to be a purely American disease.

All I have to add is this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtIuuWjrFQ

If these guys are representative - I wouldn't go using the Aussies as the gold standard

Brilliant!

Haha, i remember that one. That's why you have to flat-tow with the key cracked forward just out of the lock position. Just because it isnt locked when you start moving doesnt mean it never will.

I've towed a LOT of stuff in my day. I've towed 7000 with an S10 4 banger and I've towed 3500 with a Beretta. But the bottom line is that 90% of the time you could tow a 40' travel trailer with a Tercel, but one good gust of wind and you'll be upside down in a ditch, or if you have to stop suddenly... or do anything but normal driving.

I used an F250 powerstroke to tow my 31' travel trailer when we were full-timers, and sometimes it was a white-knuckle time. I'm a fan of overkill. If I'm towing the boat over to the lake, who cares? If I'm dragging 12k across the country, bring out the big trucks.

Keep in mind also... Factory tow ratings are pretty bogus. A good example: A Roadmaster/Caprice/Fleetwood with an LT1, 4L60E, and 2.93 rear axle is rated to tow 5500 lbs. My Impala SS with an LT1, 4L60E, and 3.08 rear axle is rated to tow 2000. Same car, better axle ratio, but its marketed purpose is different so they reduce the tow rating. My 03 Sonoma V6 with the wimpy little 7.5" rear axle is rated to tow 6800. Why? Because it has the same basic running gear as a full size truck and they market it to buyers who often need to tow.

Manufacturers have to A) make a marketable vehicle, and B) cover their butts on warranty claims. How much its actually good for is a whole different thing.

Its much like GVW ratings. They're mostly political based on DOT cutoffs for classes of vehicle... but to say that a Dodge, a Chevy, and a Ford 3/4 ton pickup are all perfectly equal in their ability to carry exactly 8600 lbs is pretty naive.

It also has a HUGE amount to do with what you're towing. A 6000 lb 18' flatbed with a car on it is massively different than a 4000 lb 18' travel trailer. One is a lot of stable weight down low with E-range tires. The other is a lightweight sail.

curtis73 wrote: I'm a fan of overkill.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If these guys are representative - I wouldn't go using the Aussies as the gold standard Brilliant!

yeah cause you Yankees have cornered the planet on intelligence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAMbuwQEINM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNHf26xcNOA

I dont need a large suv to tow my jet ski and trailer. I towed my ski up the grapevine (2600 ft) to pyramid lake this past weekend. It was a slow but it got the job done! <img src="" />

curtis73 wrote: Keep in mind also... Factory tow ratings are pretty bogus.

In 2012, the SAE will have tests to prove the real tow ratings of pickups, some info here: http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0912_sae_tow_ratings_finally_pass_sniff_test/viewall.html Should be interesting to see how the ratings change on the pickups. I guess a few will go down some.

Vigo wrote:

that stopped as good as most cars even when empty.

Try measuring it. The people who do it constantly, for a living (lots of practice), have, and it is not pretty. At least not until you get into the nearly-brand-new stuff. Which does impress me.

Sure, we can measure it. How about comparing a dually with a trailer vs your car with the same trailer, which is stop sooner? Car will stop better empty, truck better with a trailer behind it. No argument intended, I just prefer to use a vehicle best suited for the job at hand whenever possible. Of course since I drove the 91 F350 daily for almost two years and autocrossed my Dakota R/T all this year, it shows that I don't always have the best vehicle for the job.

"Your honor, I know I was exceeding the rated towing capacity by over 1000 lbs, but I'm sure it's OK- I read it on the Inte3rntz".

These threads are pretty tiresome.

My ability to tow a 25' Visa around a parking lot with a Jetta is a pretty meaningless exercise. I can do that with my lawn mower.

My grandparents had an Airstream twisted OFF their nearly 4000 lb Olds 88 (with proper load balancing class 3 hitch) by a crosswind as they drove across a ridge. Airstream rolled down a 200' embankment, they were safe in the car. Good thing they weren't in a compact, huh?

Real world towing conditions are about the ENTIRE engineering package, particularly the stopping capability.

How about asking your insurance agent? I'll bet he won't encourage you to exceed the rated towing capacity of the vehicle.

It is completely irresponsible for us to suggest to drivers who are novices at towing that it is acceptable to tow ANYTHING that exceeds the rated towing capacity of the vehicle. It is NOT.

Sure, we can measure it. How about comparing a dually with a trailer vs your car with the same trailer, which is stop sooner? Car will stop better empty, truck better with a trailer behind it.

Yeah, and i know guys who will tack a 3000 lb trailer onto the end of their 8000 lb dually to carry a 600 lb load because it's easier to get it into the trailer than 5 feet into the air to get it into the bed. And they go down the road thinking their 12klb 46ft-long monster is safer than X Y Z because they've got a monster tow rig.

Like i said, there is a point where it makes sense. But that trailer has to have real weight on it before it makes sense, and there's plenty of times when that's not the case.

aussiesmg wrote: yeah cause you Yankees have cornered the planet on intelligence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAMbuwQEINM&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNHf26xcNOA

That last one is awesome.

Then there's this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8a71x6H8_4

I've found a nice compromise is a full size van with a V6. My 4.3 Express gets an honest 17 mpg and can still handle a decent size trailer. Wouldn't work for someone towing a giant, enclosed trailer, but for my open trailer with Spridget it's fine and well within safety range. The van is regular duty model (1500) and has 4 wheel disk and ABS. I have electric brakes. Towing without trailer brakes is a really bad idea. By the way, in many northeast states, cars must be towed on 4 wheel trailers but I see this rule being broken a lot. Check your local laws.

Trans in my Express is similar to V8 vans (to me, a small auto trans is the weak link in some lighter duty tow vehicles)

And I agree that there is no need to tow at 80 mph. 60 to 65 should be fine. Sometimes I back off to 50 mph up really steep hills, but that's no big deal (to me). The V6 could probably tow faster uphill, but the trans would drop down one gear and I hate to have it screaming for no reason. With the V6, it just takes a little extra patience.

.

SVreX wrote: It is completely irresponsible for us to suggest to drivers who are novices at towing that it is acceptable to tow ANYTHING that exceeds the rated towing capacity of the vehicle. It is NOT.

I agree, but I think its equally irresponsible for us to suggest to novice tow drivers that the factory tow rating is the whole truth. My friends bought a 28' travel trailer to tow behind their Land Rover Discovery and then promptly decided to tour the Cascades. They almost died when the trailer started pushing them down the mountain while their Discovery brakes went up in smoke. They also destroyed the rear airbags.

Sure, the trailer was under the factory tow rating weight, but that doesn't mean squat. Its equally dumb to limit my Impala SS to only towing 2000 lbs because the factory didn't think the target market wanted to tow anything with it.

These discussions are great for novices because they ferret out the real-world truth. Yes, I tow 4000 lbs with a car rated for only 2000 because I know the truth. I also won't tow 5000 with my compact pickup which is rated for 6800 lbs because I know its bogus.

SVreX wrote: Real world towing conditions are about the ENTIRE engineering package, particularly the stopping capability.

I fully agree, and factory tow ratings have little to do with how they've engineered the vehicle.

How about asking your insurance agent? I'll bet he won't encourage you to exceed the rated towing capacity of the vehicle.

Of course they won't... for the same reason the factory doesn't. They're covering their butts. As far as legal and insurance reasons are concerned, they have no idea. Police don't carry around a book that lists the tow rating of every vehicle, they use subjective visual clues to "guess" whether or not you LOOK safe.

I got in an accident where a guy fell asleep and rear-ended me. Nobody asked if he was over his GVW (even though there was about 2000 lbs of firewood in the bed). The police didn't give him a ticket, the insurance company paid just like normal. Had they actually weighed the truck they would have seen that he was about 1000 lbs over GVW.

Which leads me to another good example... my previous truck was a light-duty 3/4 chevy. GVW was something like 6400. With a full tank of gas, two large guys and our hunting gear, we were over GVW, but nobody looks at two duffel bags and a rifle in a 3/4 ton truck and assumes its over weight.

GVW, tow ratings, and other haplessly random ratings like that are bogus and general at best. Think about a 1976 3/4 ton truck versus a 2011 3/4 ton truck. They might both be rated for the same GVW and towing, but which one actually does better?

Aeronca, i agree with you.

I have been able to tow tandem axles with light cars on them reasonably safely with a 3600 lb 3.9L dakota (roughly same engine/trans ability as your van).

I dont like doing it, though. The rear brakes dont do anything on that truck, and id ALWAYS rather be dolley towing or flat-towing (no awd's to tow for me).

One thing i have noticed is that some trailers (i dont own a tandem axle, always borrow) are RIDICULOUSLY overweight. There was one 22ft trailer i towed with a ~1400 lb stripped shell on it that felt heavier than all the other trailers ive towed with complete cars on them.

If i was buying a trailer, i'd be very weight conscious and certainly not buy one that was 1000+ lb overbuilt.

Also, i agree with Curtis73 on all points.

And in a general sense i agree with SVrex that new towers should start small and slow and work their way up. The first time i towed a tandem axle trailer (age 16) i got it stuck in a gas station from lack of forethought of how i was going to get out. Had to wait until the parking lot was empty (almost never) before i had room to get out. Thats a rookie mistake but it just brings to mind that you have to start at the BOTTOM and work your way up.. and not assume that anyone will grasp even the basics on their first time out.

I think we've all towed too much with too little at one time or another. Having moved on to a 3/4 ton diesel long bed as my tow/haul vehicle, I can tell you for sure I'm never going back. It didn't cost me 40k either. Did I mention it gets 20 mpg (18 towing a car trailer), has ~800 lbs of torque at the rear wheels (at 2k rpm), and hasn't left me beside the road for 120k miles?

To quote Hannibal from the A-Team "Overkill is underrated." J