Internet Bench Racing - Challenge Wagon

Stampie posted a saab wagon in one of my other threads yesterday and got me thinking about the best wagon for the challenge. Let's say you wanted to win the challenge wagon class - what would you do (and I realize some of you are already doing what you will do, if you don't want to blow the surprise, don't, but also feel free to list and link your build thread)?

I think this is what I would do:

Car: saturn wagon - advantage: light! apparently the stock curb weight is 2390lbs - LESS THAN AN MGB-GT!!!

Engine: saturn DOHC (LL0?) engine, stock 125 ish hp

Power adder: take engine apart and maximize everything, polish, port match, smooth valve guides, lap valves, have injectors cleaned/flow tested, index spark plugs, shave head for bump in compression (and figure out how to prevent cam timing changes), remove mechanical water pump in favor of electical, make long tube headers. If running a serp belt, remove some ribs, if running a v-belt get the smallest possible, remove as many idlers as possible, should only have an alternator attached. Get flywheel surface turned down to service limit and see if there are opportunites to remove mass from other areas of the clutch PP or flywheel. Maybe you could get to 150hp. Add a 50 shot of nitrous.

Suspension: maybe copy echoechoecho by not using a suspension, rather just use washers or hockey pucks or bumpstops, slot, shim and/or use washers to get a bit of camber. Make sure bushings and wheel bearings are good.

Tires: autox, run smallest A7 or 200TW top dog available, drag, run 20x8x13 in front and skinnys on rear with space saver wheels. find the absolute lightest wheels around 

Finally: keep full interior beside maybe temporarily removing seats and spare/jack kits (interior can't be that heavy anyway, maybe get really light front seats), but do all the small things like:

• find smallest saturn brakes available, turn rotors and/or drums down to service limit, even turn the outside edge of disks right to the pad contact and the outsides of drums for even more benefit
• remove paper air filter
• remove PS and AC systems entirely
• run really lightweight but high quality synthetic engine and gearbox oil
• install an accelerator pedal switch to turn off the alternator at full throttle and run a lightweight battery
• have as lightweight an exhaust as possible
• remove all unnecessary fluids like wiper fluid
• remove internal bumper crash bars
• remove hood and tailgate gas struts, use removable props instead, gut or make fiberglass hood, remove all but one latch
• remove any window and sunroof motors, convert to manual winders, even for sunroof
• remove stereo and all interior speakers and lights
• fill non-strucural unibody metal (like inner fenders) with speed holes
• as many other small improvements you can make, without effecting the stock appearance to the untrained eye

Yes, it would be a lot of work. But in the end you would have a screamer of an autox car that wouldn't be slow in drags either, and would have a sleeper look. Also, it wouldn't be that hard for anyone to do, as long as you dedicate 15 mintues per day.

Note: I have no intention of pulling this off because I already have too many challenge projects. So please steal the idea.

You just described Street Prepared.  Retentive attention to detail can yield impressive results.

Near as I can tell there is no real advantage to keeping an interior in a challenge car. Couple this with points for creativity with swaps and what not, and I'd be looking at a light V8 powered wagon, pretty much whatever I could get my hands on for $200ish. From there it's all cutting and welding and sourcing a V8 and all that. Standard Challenge stuff. The big issue I see is that most of the top cars (with the notable exception of Ed's cars) go through a period of evolution and refinement, and these one year classes mean you have to get it right the first time. That's hard. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

these one year classes mean you have to get it right the first time. That's hard. 

That's why I would not be doing any engine swapping or serious re-engineering work. Just maximizing everything you start with.

I could be talked into removing the interior, but then there needs to be a solution to have something cover up all the ugly left over. And I bet there is very little that is lighter and cheaper than used saturn carpet and interior panels.

I plan on crushing all other wagons this year with a V8 volvo...  maybe not but at least I plan to try. 

I am actually not waiting till the day before to build it so that has to count for something.

I have sourced a 1996 lt1 with 4l60 transmission for my 960... add 150 shot from the trailerparkcet equals more power than I know what to do with.

I'm thinking that a junkyard turbo setup (K03s are common and cheap) and meth injection would be a better, if slightly more expensive route to consistent power (200-ish seems achievable). There's a lot of glass in a wagon, so this might be a good application of Lexan. 

Of course another option is a gutted PT GT with some extra boost and sleeves. You'd be surprise at how much PT seats weight, or how much metal can be cut out. It shouldn't be hard to get a PT GT to 2800 lbs and around 285 horses. Plus, those big arches can easily be radiused and pulled for more tire clearance.

In reply to Robbie :

Saturns of that era are also plastic side paneled.  You could remove all the fender and door skins and run sort of exoskeleton-like.

This is actually a quickly found picture of a Saturn Ion but you get the idea

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

You just described Street Prepared.  Retentive attention to detail can yield impressive results.

sounds like real nerd talk just send it!!!!

John Welsh said:

In reply to Robbie :

Saturns of that era are also plastic side paneled.  You could remove all the fender and door skins and run sort of exoskeleton-like.

This is actually a quickly found picture of a Saturn Ion but you get the idea

 

  

neat, but I'd want the opposite. Plastic ext panels for a stock look with as little of the understructure as necessary.

Here's my plan and I won't even keep it secret.

Car:  Datsun 210 wagon. Advantage - lighter than a Miata - only 2,080 lbs curb weight, plus nature's speed holes

Donor car: Infinity G35 in wrecked but still driving condition (I am so lucky)

Engine: Nissan VQ35DE - 3.5L and 260 hp in its least potent form. Weighs less than 400 lbs. Bring all the harness ECM BCM security stuff over from the donor G35.

Lots and lots of shoehorning and tunnel cutting.

Front: Stock McP struts, just lower maybe with universal coilover sleeves welded on.

Rear: G35's IRS bolted in (only 4 bolts!) because that little Datsun axle sure looks weak.

Hoping to keep the swap weight-neutral.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Scour VQ groups for used headers and a used intake, and buy a 5/16" plenum spacer. You should be pleasantly surprised with the effect, even without a tune.

In reply to Robbie :

Not saying that I've researched or anything but with the right bolt ons 150 HP is achievable without getting inside the engine. They also apparently take to turbos really well with 200 at the wheels easy but reports of 300 at the wheels being absolute max. Yes I have to keep myself from entering Saturn on Craigslist because it gets me thinking everytime. 

John Welsh said:

  

Yikes.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Yea, like that. I was thinking V8 but the VQ should do nicely. Looking forward to seeing it. 

Robbie said:

what would you do.

Easy, T-I Reliant.  But I think Chrysler built like 12 of them.  The 210 VQ sounds dope.  

My plan: Opel Kadett Wagon (1800ish lbs), engine TBD, look cool and be slow. 

pimpm3 said:

I plan on crushing all other wagons this year with a V8 volvo...  maybe not but at least I plan to try. 

I am actually not waiting till the day before to build it so that has to count for something.

I have sourced a 1996 lt1 with 4l60 transmission for my 960... add 150 shot from the trailerparkcet equals more power than I know what to do with.

Can't wait!

maschinenbau said:

Here's my plan and I won't even keep it secret.

Car:  Datsun 210 wagon. Advantage - lighter than a Miata - only 2,080 lbs curb weight, plus nature's speed holes

Donor car: Infinity G35 in wrecked but still driving condition (I am so lucky)

Engine: Nissan VQ35DE - 3.5L and 260 hp in its least potent form. Weighs less than 400 lbs. Bring all the harness ECM BCM security stuff over from the donor G35.

Lots and lots of shoehorning and tunnel cutting.

Front: Stock McP struts, just lower maybe with universal coilover sleeves welded on.

Rear: G35's IRS bolted in (only 4 bolts!) because that little Datsun axle sure looks weak.

Hoping to keep the swap weight-neutral.

Didn't know you scored a donor car! Excellent!

8valve said:

Robbie said:

what would you do.

Easy, T-I Reliant.  But I think Chrysler built like 12 of them.  The 210 VQ sounds dope.  

I don't know what that is. Pics?

EvanB said:

My plan: Opel Kadett Wagon (1800ish lbs), engine TBD, look cool and be slow. 

If you keep it 1800 lbs and running you won't be THAT slow with even a really small engine. I thought you were planning bike power?

You have no idea how much it bothers me I can't make it this year. 

I'm working on keeping Uncle Ben under $2k. But hauling it to Florida is not at all practical for me this year. 

Robbie said:

8valve said:

Robbie said:

what would you do.

Easy, T-I Reliant.  But I think Chrysler built like 12 of them.  The 210 VQ sounds dope.  

I don't know what that is. Pics?

Turbo K-car Wagon, basically take the Scaries and put it in a Wagon like JohnnyBQuick’s:

http://www.polybushings.com/pages/k-carwagon.html

John Welsh said:

In reply to Robbie :

Saturns of that era are also plastic side paneled.  You could remove all the fender and door skins and run sort of exoskeleton-like.

This is actually a quickly found picture of a Saturn Ion but you get the idea

 

  

Maybe you could turn a Saturn into a front engine fiero lol

The simplest is the early 2000s WRX. I’ve seen 5 or so without looking with various title issues or rust that have been under budget. Simple modifications can get you over 300hp at the crank and the suspension is a good design compared to most wagons.