IS 300 - why so rare?

I had a student w/ a Sportcross at an SCCA PDX event on the Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point last year. After I finally broke him of his unwillingness to brake with any conviction at all the lap times came way down and I was impressed with how well the car worked. The last session I engaged in a bit of "beat the other instructor's student" and got him going hard enough that the (automatic only) transmission was puking fluid which was burning off on the exhaust and making a nice little smoke trail.

And now that I know there's no 5MT Sport Cross cars, I'll stop looking.

I love, er, hate you guys. My wife definitely hates you. I just e-mailed on this to find out if it's got LSD:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ctd/2763970267.html

Anybody want to buy a Legacy GT limited wagon with MT?

PeterAK wrote: Anybody want to buy a Legacy GT limited wagon with MT?

You are just a few short weeks too late. We were shopping those really hard. Just to amuse myself: how much?

I saw and posted in your wanted thread--didn't have any interest in selling until I started looking at these IS300's again. (DAMN YOU GRM!!!) What did you end up buying?

I'd have to do some research to see what my car is worth these days. And I wouldn't sell unless I found exactly what I wanted to replace it with.

I'm a little late to the party here, but will have to say much of what is written is spot on. I would say they are very comparable to an E36 3 series in stock form, but with a much higher build quallity. In stock form, the M3 is faster though. Modify both with equal amounts of money, and I think you could get the IS to beat an M3. Most of the Supra stuff is bolt on, and a Turbo Supra would easily blow off an M3 on track. We did it week in and week out. Granted the IS is more of a brick, but you can make one insanely fast. Turbo IS300 swaps are not unheard of.

Keep in mind IS300's were road raced in various programs with success, as well as autocrossed. I think it was Derek Butts that maybe won a title in his Street Prepared version. And a guy I know bought one of the old World Challenge cars, and it was a sweet, sweet car.

Mileage wise, it is not all that bad for the time. My G35 is lucky to get 20-22. Granted a BMW will do better, but they were the freaks of the mid sized sedan world during that time.

Around here they are getting hard to find, at least compared to a few years ago. Even the best Toyota can't survive 'yo boy owners though without turning to crap or junkyard residents.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on the car I linked above... My only reservations are that:

-The back seat is a little smaller than it is in my Legacy and we have a 13 month old and one more on the way. With the rear facing car seat the front seat is not very comfy. My wife's car is an '11 Outback so we do have one big car.

-It's a rebuild title. I have pics of the car before repair and it doesn't look bad but I get bored with cars in a couple years so I need to make sure that I get a good enough deal on it now that I don't lose too much money when I sell in a few years.

Any thoughts on either of the two points would be appreciated.

i wouldn't pay that much for a rebuild title if you are going to sell in the next couple of years. that will kill your resale value.

Being an owner, I've always noticed plenty of other IS300s around my town. But this morning I saw 3 Sportcrosses in less then 5 minutes. Would love to trade up my sedan for a wagon

Yeah pass on the rebuild if you wanna resell for any kind of money. Perhaps expand your search region, fly and drive?

Considering the years they were built, how do they compare to an E46 BMW? Let's do apples to apples here- and surprise, surprise, and early e46 with a sport package is going to cost less than an IS300 around these here parts.

I'd still rather maintain the Toyota.

Brett_Murphy wrote: Considering the years they were built, how do they compare to an E46 BMW? Let's do apples to apples here- and surprise, surprise, and early e46 with a sport package is going to cost less than an IS300 around these here parts.

Purchase price

Ever wonder why the Bimmers depreciated so much? Because they are maintenance whores.

Half my customers buy Bimmers because the purchase price is now in their range. Problem is that most cannot afford the scheduled maintenance, let alone the long list of worn out parts. If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, you can't afford it now.

I've owned 4 BMWs. I'm prepared for the maintenance, but I'm probably not your average BMW customer. As such, your reply doesn't answer my question

How does an IS300 stack up against the E46 in terms of driving fun and build quality? If they are favorable, I might bail on my E46 idea and start looking for one of these... in yellow, if possible.

Stock for stock? E46 is probably more fun. The IS300 might stack up well against the very bottom bargain basement E46.

Brett_Murphy wrote: How does an IS300 stack up against the E46 in terms of driving fun and build quality?

It has considerably more weight (~200lbs) on the front axle than an E36/E46 and also narrower fenders, so physics dictates that ultimately it is going to turn and brake slower. Of course slower could be more fun.

Cone_Junky wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: Considering the years they were built, how do they compare to an E46 BMW? Let's do apples to apples here- and surprise, surprise, and early e46 with a sport package is going to cost less than an IS300 around these here parts.

Purchase price Ever wonder why the Bimmers depreciated so much? Because they are maintenance whores. Half my customers buy Bimmers because the purchase price is now in their range. Problem is that most cannot afford the scheduled maintenance, let alone the long list of worn out parts. If you couldn't afford the car when it was new, you can't afford it now.

Good. I don't mind maintenance, actual or deferred/neglected.

As to the very last sentence, I disagree. Not everyone has 30k plus to spend for a "new" vehicle. Or wants to spend....

Ranger50 wrote: As to the very last sentence, I disagree. Not everyone has 30k plus to spend for a "new" vehicle. Or wants to spend....

You are right. I could afford to spend more than I do on a car, but I don't want to.

My point is that the e46 is selling cheap because the maintenance bills and/or needed repairs have surpassed the owners ability to pay for such items.

The original owner got a warranted and possibly free maintenance vehicle, so their only costs were the monthly payments. Once that powertrain warranty and maintenance warranty runs out, the ownership costs skyrocket. I couldn't imagine having to make a car payment AND pay for maintenance.

I've spent a lot of time driving all these vehicles and I think the IS300 is comparable to an e36. The e46 is a better performer in almost all categories than the IS300, but not worth it IMO. I work as a BMW/Audi/VW tech, so that's why I own a Lexus and an Acura

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

Sorry I got cut off by the wife to come to the dinner table... What I am saying is there is a segment of the population, which an overbundance seem to be congregated here, that won't buy the best new thing out there, even if they can afford it. I, for one, can't afford anything over about 5k. But to pick up that broken or beat up vehicle for 5k, fix it, and pawn it for 8 or more or drive until it dies, I'm in. Something about driving a vehicle above what you could really afford really gets me.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to fast_eddie_72: Sorry I got cut off by the wife to come to the dinner table... What I am saying is there is a segment of the population, which an overbundance seem to be congregated here, that won't buy the best new thing out there, even if they can afford it.

Not sure I said what I meant right either- I'm agreeing with you. I was trying to say I could afford more expensive cars, but don't want to plunk that kinda money down for a car. Any car. I'm a gunna edit my post. Don't like how it sounds anyhoo.

I looked on Craigslist and there is a yellow one for sale not far from me... wearing 20" chrome.

Pity, I might have been interested in finding out if it was a manual trans, as it was I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Cone_Junky wrote: My point is that the e46 is selling cheap because the maintenance bills and/or needed repairs have surpassed the owners ability to pay for such items.

Because those people don't have the grease under their manicured nails replacing broken parts. They try to whip out the checkbook to get that $45 part replaced with $130+/hr labor. Just leads to an empty pocketbook and a still broken car. This is where I step in buy said car and drive a car looking like royalty.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Stock for stock? E46 is probably more fun. The IS300 might stack up well against the very bottom bargain basement E46.

I cross-shopped the E46 325i, the IS300, and the G35, all with manual trans. I liked them in that order, too. I found the BMW most involving but least powerful, and the G35 at the opposite end of that spectrum. But the 325i had enough power for me, and the extra power certainly did not make those other cars any more interesting to drive. Add to that the serious premium to the cost of the IS300, and I just was not impressed. Year for year and dollar for dollar, I could get 325is all day long at the same cost as a similar IS300 with 40k-50k more miles on it.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I've owned 4 BMWs. I'm prepared for the maintenance, but I'm probably not your average BMW customer. As such, your reply doesn't answer my question How does an IS300 stack up against the E46 in terms of driving fun and build quality? If they are favorable, I might bail on my E46 idea and start looking for one of these... in yellow, if possible.

Build quality is no comparison, the Toyota is the clear winner. I was shopping for an E46 when I bought my G35. Almost everyone I looked at had some sort of interior problem. The seats wouldn't work correctly, dash fit was poor, and don't get me started on the warning lights and CEL's visible in the ones I drove, even one of the BMW lot. Some of the exterior pieces were degrading quickly too.

I really, really wanted a 330CI, until I drove one. The steering was a bit vague, which I put down to a problem with that car. Until I drove another one, and it was exactly the same. It seems the early ones had a problem in this area, something which I was not aware. My previous E36 was way better, and it was a 325, not an M3. There is a reason why E46's are cheap.

Not to bash the BMW, as I'm looking at possibly getting an M3, but it's not just maintenance, repair costs are much higher too. And you need them more often. I've been around BMW's all my life, and as my Dad is a big BMW guy, and I can tell you, they fail a LOT more often. Especially the newer ones. And when some of the parts go, they can get pricey, like his 5 series frying everything in the dash. Many people with these couldn't absorb that cost, it was almost more than the car is worth really, as it is about 5 years old now. And it still has lighting issues with at least a half dozen trips to the dealer to get fixed.

I love BMW's, but you can't be blind to the cost of ownership. It's simply going to be more expensive over the long run. What you save in gas you are going to pay back in repairs. Take your pick.

By contrast, Toyota's are overbuilt. We raced Supra's (the IS300 takes a large part of it's running gear directly from the '98 Supra) for several years in endurance races, and they had almost zero failures other than driver caused issues. It was a little like cheating they were so good.

I've got an 05 5 speed, I love everything about it except the gas mileage.

I've put some sway bars, koni yellows, and an OEM LSD in it and that made it tons better.

Reliable as all hell too, 200k+ is not uncommon.