I've gotten serious 2 different times about building a vintage-bodied EV, but as stated already, the cost just doesn't make sense (yet!).. We do seem to be getting closer though, and as soon as the $$ required gets close to what an ICE project takes, I'll cross over to electric.. Looking forward to it actually :-)
--ccrunner
In reply to ccrunner :
What were you seeing for costs? Where were the parts coming from?
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:In reply to ccrunner :
What were you seeing for costs? Where were the parts coming from?
The EV West complete kit for a Beetle with batteries, AC motor, controller, etc is $18695.
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168&osCsid=c6dcc1a7fce55de7750162e15453b992
Keith Tanner said:I agree that GM may unlock a bunch of options, but at the moment they won't sell "crate" kits to individuals or normal shops. You have to go through their special approval and then training process, which means if you're not Hennessey you won't get on the list. Ford is going a different way, they're selling motors (heck, they're in the parts fiches, why not?) and leaving the rest up to the installer. At SEMA show 2021, they had AEM on the stand with them as a component supplier.
https://www.aemev.com is worth checking out. For the DIY crowd, they show more promise than anyone.
Oh I hadn't seen that AEM stuff. That is super interesting.
I am hoping one day I will be able to EV swap my Element.
We are currently focusing on converting Jag E-Types. We have designed and built a subframe that replaces the original rear suspension that houses a Cascadia Motion motor and differential.
This leaves us the entire engine bay for batteries and a useable trunk. If we use all the weight of the Jag motor and transmission we can get almost 250 miles of range before we even consider regenerative braking in the math.
We are using the AEM management.
The guy doing the engineering despises any system that plugs a motor into an existing transmission. He will go on a tirade about why it is terrible for range, noise, heat loss and regen if you let him.
We also intentionally avoided repurposing old Tesla motors and batteries. With their fight against right to repair who knows what they will attempt in the future and we'd rather not make a rally nice brick.
In reply to Trent :
Ummm. Sooooo, will you guys be selling those subframes? Or only building them for in house conversions?
93EXCivic said:pres589 (djronnebaum) said:In reply to ccrunner :
What were you seeing for costs? Where were the parts coming from?
The EV West complete kit for a Beetle with batteries, AC motor, controller, etc is $18695.
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168&osCsid=c6dcc1a7fce55de7750162e15453b992
To add a bit to that:
....This complete kit will deliver 90 miles safe driving distance, and will charge to full in a little under 8 hours.....
Probably fine from most commuting, but you have to be aware this is a car with no AC (probably no heat) and wildly lower crash protection than a modern car (I am obviously not bashing the car, but being realistic).
You are also going to really want a brake upgrade if you convert a non-disc brake car.
I remember seeing prices like that for the EV West kits. Wasn't sure if there were better options out there. Wrecked Leaf seems like a nice option but how many wrecked/cheap but usable Leaves are out there?
90 miles range doesn't seem so bad but 8 hours charging time to get there is a buzz kill.
In reply to Trent :
I'll back up your guy with the transmission tirades :) Please let us know how things go with the AEM.
The Project X conversion was done by taking a Lyriq motor/transmission and running a driveshaft from one side of the trans to a Hewland rear end. Probably the best way to go if you don't want to jam the whole thing into a new subframe, it's basically a motor/trans swap at that point. It's less efficient than putting the motor/trans between the rear wheels (it's expensive mechanically to turn the power by 90 degrees) but it's a good mix of results and effort.
The guy doing the engineering despises any system that plugs a motor into an existing transmission. He will go on a tirade about why it is terrible for range, noise, heat loss and regen if you let him.
Tell him to do it in this thread.
That's how Garret (aka "swarfalot") and I got together years (and years) ago. We were both looking at EV-ing a TR7 and were looking for cheap, non-rusted 7s. Never found one cheap enough/rust-free enough.
I also sold my last MR2 to a guy who EV-ed it. He sent me a video after he was done and looked like a lot of fun. At least in the parking lot.
So the short answer to the post is "yes", but they don't seem to get much coverage here. Yet.
( I also wonder if anyone has seen any EVs at a car show yet. I don't think most of those people would appreciate those vehicles.)
I have all the cells from a Volt battery pack sitting in my shop for some future fun. I have negative money in them at this point. I think they're all ok just not good enough for a Volt's picky battery management.
In reply to Trent :
How big is that relative to a Miata rear end? Finding a rear subframe to cut up is not hard at all. And then putting batteries in place of the gas tank, trans, and engine would be a pretty nice package.
But I do see GMs hesitance to just sell these things, as it's easy to short the system. People have been trained to deal with fuel and what not, high voltage dc is quite different.
As I've mentioned previously, my ADD is something that hurts my ICE builds. The thought of working with potentially lethal amounts of electricity is not something that I'm currently comfortable with.
GRM should give serious consideration to doing a monthly GREV column. Get us petrol-heads edumacated and maybe more of us will go for it.
alfadriver said:In reply to Trent :
How big is that relative to a Miata rear end? Finding a rear subframe to cut up is not hard at all. And then putting batteries in place of the gas tank, trans, and engine would be a pretty nice package.
But I do see GMs hesitance to just sell these things, as it's easy to short the system. People have been trained to deal with fuel and what not, high voltage dc is quite different.
The small Model S drive unit should fit into a Miata, as well as all Model 3 units. Ford too, iirc. Big Model 3 interferes with suspension pickup points according to our models. You could reverse it but you'd need to come up with external oiling for trans.
aircooled said:93EXCivic said:pres589 (djronnebaum) said:In reply to ccrunner :
What were you seeing for costs? Where were the parts coming from?
The EV West complete kit for a Beetle with batteries, AC motor, controller, etc is $18695.
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168&osCsid=c6dcc1a7fce55de7750162e15453b992
To add a bit to that:
....This complete kit will deliver 90 miles safe driving distance, and will charge to full in a little under 8 hours.....
Probably fine from most commuting, but you have to be aware this is a car with no AC (probably no heat) and wildly lower crash protection than a modern car (I am obviously not bashing the car, but being realistic).
You are also going to really want a brake upgrade if you convert a non-disc brake car.
I have driven Micheals personal VW bug about 40 miles up and down PCH a few years ago.
it used a stock VW trans and was pretty quick , but yes the stock transmission makes noise but I do not think it had any noise reduction padding at the time.
at 90 mile range it's getting what the original Leaf got ,
alfadriver said:In reply to Trent :
How big is that relative to a Miata rear end? Finding a rear subframe to cut up is not hard at all. And then putting batteries in place of the gas tank, trans, and engine would be a pretty nice package.
But I do see GMs hesitance to just sell these things, as it's easy to short the system. People have been trained to deal with fuel and what not, high voltage dc is quite different.
Our subframe is a good bit narrower than a miata. E types have super narrow track width.
I have also learned that electric car batteries do not lend themselves to being separated and placed all over the car. The heat management/cooling systems, cabling and charging is all affected by trying to spread them out. In our system we could not fast charge if we tried to put more batteries in the trunk. Plus we would have added another hundred pounds of heavy cabling, secondary water pumps...ect
In reply to Trent :
Yea, I think the easiest thing for an EV conversion is the motor. For the batteries, not only do you need to find a space, you also need to engineer a housing for them so that there isn't a failure (batteries fall out there's abrasion where it's shorted, batteries all connected together, etc)- that's a pretty significant change from dropping in and supporing a powertrain.
In reply to alfadriver :
Luckily we are replacing a Jag 6 cylinder so we have a large rectangular opening to fill
I went into a rabbit hole for EV swaps, particularly using Leaf components.
Here's a cool one I found:
When I was in high school my shop class built a Subaru ev using a forklift motor & a bunch of lead acid batteries. So swaps have been around for along time. With more factory options & better batteries I think conversions will get more common. Hopefully open source control software will become common to help with this. I seem to remember a fiero with electric front wheel & gas rear wheel drive built for the challenge some years ago. Maybe grassroots needs an ev category for the challenge.
I enjoyed watching Vintage Voltage via MotorTrend TV. Lots of interesting EV conversions, and they use Tesla motors. Put ideas of EV conversions in my head that I'll likely never be able to act on...
I'm strongly considering one
I have only 2 things stopping me. First, I have 2 unfinished projects in my garage a 3 other cars to maintain ( maintain being anything from changing the oil in my dd to changing the head gasket on my track rat)
second, I can't decide what to electrify. I want to find a 4 door sedan that is old enough to avoid nannies but new enough I can get seals, hoses, interior trim bits to make it seem new. It would also be nice to have the body be cheap enough that I can build it for less than $20.
I got a project from a car guy who was thinning the herd prior to a move. He was using the 1980 X1/9 as an EV conversion "practice project" before taking on another EV conversion project.
I'm watching for a donor car that has had a tree fall on it or similar. Chevrolet Bolt and Spark are on the list, as is a newer Nissan Leaf.
Tesla would be cool, but I think the biggest I might go would be Model 3. I don't want to go berserk on the power, my 7 year old is interested in the project, and it would be nice for it to be something I could let him drive occasionally when he's old enough. They are also ridiculously anti DIY, and I don't want to deal with that.
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