jere
jere Reader
5/14/13 8:58 p.m.

There was some brake bias load balance-r thing that was leaking in back of the camry. I took it out and just spliced in some hard line, but I have no idea if there was a left or right side. Anyone expect disaster to strike if I just pour in some brake fluid and see what happens?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
5/14/13 9:06 p.m.

I'm not sure how likely it is that that had anything to do with bias. Might have just been an assembly thing. Got pics?

jere
jere Reader
5/14/13 9:37 p.m.

In reply to Swank Force One:

I haven't ever seen one.. of what ever it is. It had a bolt that went to the control arm, and then to a part that had the rear brake line run into and out of it. It worked well as a brake fluid squirt gun whatever it is, got me right between the eyes when I was pulling it out. I walked away for a while lost track of where the lines went in the process.

I will go hunt down a camera as I can't find any thing on google image search.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltraDork
5/14/13 9:41 p.m.

If there are 4 lines, you probably have a diagonal split on the master cylinder, with one circuit pressurizing left front, right rear, the other doing the other 2. That's fairly important to get right, and if the car has ABS, I would call it critical.

If there's only 2 lines, you wouldn't be asking the question, I guess.

The doodad you took off is a limiting valve designed to limit the rear brakes when you really get on the pedal and the nose drops/ rear rises, or increase braking when the rear is loaded and riding low.

jere
jere Reader
5/14/13 10:14 p.m.

Hard to see through all the rust but here it is.

Streetwiseguy thanks for the description on this thing. Do you think just by passing it with spliced in hard line will cause any issues? The other Camrys ( all sedans not wagons) at the junkyard seem like they never got this part.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic Dork
5/15/13 12:08 a.m.

DO NOT mix up rear lines on a diagonal system. Doing so will result in very bad things happening should a line blow(the car will want to turn violently).

jere
jere Reader
5/15/13 12:22 a.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Good to know thanks.

Now I have to figure out how to tell which is which, this is going to fun

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic Dork
5/15/13 12:28 a.m.

Trace them back to the ABS pump if equipped, the pump will likely be marked.

jere
jere Reader
5/16/13 6:45 p.m.

So the car isn't ABS contrary to what I thought, or more never thought about. Why are there two lines going to the back of the car? Shouldn't there just be one line split, or is one high pressure and one low? I am thoroughly confused about brake line circuits now and made a proper mess of the lines Everything that might have been labeled is rusted past recognition.

Should I cap a line and T a line and go with the one line that doesn't lock up first?

The valve thing hasn't ever been attached and the car has been fine even under load and heavy braking on hills. The replacement part is over $300 bucks from the dealer so that option is out.

Any suggestions guys?

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk SuperDork
5/16/13 7:37 p.m.

Both lines are high pressure. One goes to each rear wheel. The trick is to figure out which line goes to which wheel. I've tried finding a brake line diagram ,but with little luck so far. What model year is the car?

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltraDork
5/16/13 7:48 p.m.

The master cylinder has two separate hydraulic circuits, one close to the booster, one at the front end. There will either be 4 lines coming out of the master, or two lines that go to a distribution block on the firewall, or crossmember somewhere. You can easily trace the front lines, so you can figure out whether the front half of the master feeds the left or right. The front will feed left front and right rear, or right front and left rear. As long as the lines don't disappear completely into a frame rail or the interior of the car, you should be able to follow along.

If this thing is rusty, your first step should be to check all the bleeder screws to see how many wheel cylinders and calipers you need to change.

jere
jere Reader
5/16/13 8:03 p.m.

It's a 95, the master has the two lines out, that feed into a distribution block. The block is completely rusted, I tried to see if it said where the lines go to there is too much rust. There are three lines coming out of it, one goes to the passenger front the remaining two go to the rear of the car.

I have all new calipers on the car already, the rears were dragging. The front two bled rusty fluid so I changed them as more of a precaution.

So now I need to hunt down a diagram of the front distribution block before I go any further then right?

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/17/13 12:33 p.m.

yes, please hunt down the plumbing schematics for your car before hooking things up wrong and hurting someone in a brake-related "sub-optimal outcome"

it's a '95 camry, which means it's a diagonal-split system. LF and RR are fed by one piston of the MC; RF and LR are fed by the other. if you cross the rears, then you've got a side-split system which is bad bad bad. don't do that.

psychic_mechanic
psychic_mechanic Dork
5/17/13 12:58 p.m.

If schematics are hard to find couldn't you just jack up all 4 wheels and simulate a blowout of one of the rear brakes by leaving the bleeder loose and seeing which of the front wheels still won't turn?

jere
jere Reader
5/17/13 1:17 p.m.
psychic_mechanic wrote: If schematics are hard to find couldn't you just jack up all 4 wheels and simulate a blowout of one of the rear brakes by leaving the bleeder loose and seeing which of the front wheels still won't turn?

I like that idea thanks. I can't find the routing anywhere, even the distribution block just has arrows (at least in the pictures I have of them found, can't make anything out on the one on the car. )

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic Dork
5/18/13 2:34 a.m.

Figure out what size flare nuts it uses, go to the parts store and get a 12" long premade line, replace one of the master cylinder lines with it and loop it back into the reservoir. This prevents the MC from going dry, they are a real pain to bleed in the car. Now only one circuit will be active and you can easily trace at that point.

jere
jere Reader
5/18/13 12:46 p.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

Thanks I already have some spares with all the line I have been replacing so I will give that a shot as well.

devina
devina New Reader
5/18/13 9:59 p.m.

You will want to get the plumbing right- if you cannot find a schematic, put things together and like suggested above, jack the car up (all four corners) and while someone is pressing on the brake pedal, see which two wheels are braked. If it is two on one side, swap the plumbing around so it is a cross split.

Can you trace the lines up to the front of the car to the distribution blocks??

jere
jere Reader
5/19/13 4:52 p.m.

I had a friend come over and help/push the brake pedal today. Aside from jacking the car up and taking the wheels off the whole test and bleeding all the lines, and dry master took less than 5 minutes (with the bug sprayer pressure bleeder ). Test worked perfectly front bleeder open, no lock up with it or it's rear diagonal wheel. Thanks all the help with this guys!

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 Dork
5/19/13 7:19 p.m.

When is the last time you had a brake line blow out? Not for nothing, but I've not had it happen that often, and when it did, I wasn't in a spot that would have caused any problems. Seems like a tire blowout is much more dangerous with a lot less redundancy.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
5/19/13 7:52 p.m.

FWIW, several years ago had a Rodeo come in with some WEIRD brake action going on, random ABS apply sinking pedal pulling side to side and all kinds of weirdness. It had two lines going from the MC to the ABS pump assembly, then the 4 lines going from the ABS pump to the various corners. Turned out two brake hard lines were switched during reassembly by a body shop, IIRC it was a front and a rear. I drove it during testing and no way in hell would I want to drive it on the street that way. So yeah routing can be VERY important.Think of it this way: let's say for instance the ABS module gets a signal that, say, the right rear is locking up and starts pulsing the brakes for that corner. But that line getting the pulsing is actually going to the LEFT rear. Oops.

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