In reply to Tony Sestito :
I'm wondering if the lower engine mount would improve clutch feel as much in the Forte as it did the Rio? The vibration at idle with the AC on sucks but you can actually feel the engagement point.
I like the wife's Seltos IVT(cvt OMGTRASH!!!) with the 2.0L. It's smooth, doesn't feel like a buzzy nissan or honda cvt, really gets going well and knocks down ridiculous mpg.
I love manuals. My daily is a manual. Personally I have never been bothered by stop and go traffic with a manual.
My pickup is also a manual. Tbh I could live with that one not being a manual.
For me, if it is a hatchback or sporty car, I want a manual. SUV or truck, automatic.
Do you buy sports cars because you 'need' it?
cbaclawski said:Deep breaths. It's OK to like both, seriously!
On the street, I slightly prefer the true manual, just because its fun, and you get to use it all the time. On the rare occasion I'm exiting the interstate, the lights green, and there is no traffic, effortlessly dropping 2 gears under braking with a DCT and blasting through the turn is pretty rewarding too. You just have to focus on what it is vs. what it isn't.
On the track, paddles are where it's at (I've never actually driven a non synchro dog box mentioned above) They are clearly faster. That said, there is a place for a 3 pedal manual on the track too. After all, Freestyle swimming is clearly faster than the Breaststroke, but they are both Olympic events! Different strokes for different folks - pun intended.
Bottom line get what you like, or better still, BOTH.
I agree. I loved the DCT in my 135i, when you were caning the car. Around town............it was terrible.
Just an example of something that happened frequently, you pull up to a red light/stop sign, so you're almost completely stopped then GREEN, the car would hesitate, so you press the go pedal a bit more, then it slams all the TQ, TC kicks in and you're still dead in the water.
kjs9471 said:Do you buy sports cars because you 'need' it?
Define "sports car" and yes, it helps the mental well being of the owner.
bobzilla said:kjs9471 said:Do you buy sports cars because you 'need' it?
Define "sports car" and yes, it helps the mental well being of the owner.
I agree. It definitely helps me feel better to go for a drive.
Is my BRZ the quickest thing on the road? Nope. There are probably SUVs with a quicker 0-60. Are they having as much fun as me while I blast Skid Row? Probably not.
In reply to z31maniac :
Hell yeah Brother! That Odyssey can be up my butt on every straight section of road but hit that first 90* corner and they're 15 car lengths back.
Do I think manuals will eventually go away? It's possible as the technology improves and becomes cheaper. In the early days of paddle shift, lap times were often shown to be faster in a paddle shift instead of a manual. So, the proof is there that a good paddle shift/automatic transmission will beat a manual every time. The challenge then (and still today in some ways) is that a paddle shift automatic like that is a high end car option. Sure, a Nissan Versa may have paddle shifters or slap stick, but they don't perform nearly as well as a DSG, or even as well as a manual does.
bobzilla said:In reply to z31maniac :
Hell yeah Brother! That Odyssey can be up my butt on every straight section of road but hit that first 90* corner and they're 15 car lengths back.
I really, really want to take the BRZ to Hallett for an HPDE day.......I know it would be insanely fun. Just don't want to hurt the vehicle I drive on a semi-daily basis.
This past weekend was 1 year, still doesn't have 2500 miles on it.
In reply to z31maniac :
We are slipping OT but I love hallett
In reply to bobzilla :
We are, I'll let it back to the topic of discussion.
bobzilla said:In reply to z31maniac :
Hell yeah Brother! That Odyssey can be up my butt on every straight section of road but hit that first 90* corner and they're 15 car lengths back.
That can depend some on the sanity of the Odyssey driver. I have annoyed more than one sports car driver in my minivan, which doesn't handle as well as an Odyssey. 
Likewise, if you're driving in the hills of WV and a pickup comes up behind you, just let him past... it won't matter what you're driving, you'll be going too slow for him.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I remember getting passed by an old box s-10 blazer on 4 bald tires passing me on US52. I was driving my old Elantra on H&R's and some decent 205/55/16 tires and big brake upgrade. I couldn't keep up with him if I wanted to.
In reply to all: Shifting is fun, given the right gearbox. What detracts from the experience is having to operate the clutch. It involves twitching your lower body, stretching a bit on one side, etc. Plus some mental effort to co-ordinate its operation, although we don't appreciate how much after a while. So in traffic shifting soon becomes unpleasant and demanding. Citroen and NSU had a simple solution in the late 60s, early 70s. Clutch operation was electric and activated with merely touching the stick ball, just before moving it. Why all the complexity, expense of double clutches, extra electronics etc which isolate the driver from driving? I suppose it comes with times. Why cook when it can be delivered? Down to coffee!
In reply to AGGELIAFOROS :
Nah. Clutch operation is a fine art. If you've got to stretch on one side, adjust the seat. Multitasking? Try riding a motorcycle, where every limb is doing something different, sometimes all at once.
In reply to AGGELIAFOROS :
When I encounter a lot of traffic I simply revert to shifting without the clutch. You simply have to match the RPM.
In reply to Recon1342 :
I found it actually becomes muscle memory, and when my daily was a stick I wouldn't even think about it, just do it.
It's funny how the mind and body store that info for later use.
My last truck with a stick that was a DD was a blue GMC reg cab with blue interior, bench seat, and 3spd with low (sm465). About 15 years after getting rid of that truck I ended up with a blue on blue dodge regular cab with bench seat, but a column shift auto. It took a week or two before I finally stopped reaching for the shifter when coming up to a stop sign or a red light. All I can figure is somewhere buried deep in my mind was that autopilot for the manual trans that was woken up by the similar color and cab config to the one I had daily driven years before.
The manual transmission can be improved to get similar lap times to a dct, look at the seamless shift transmissions used in motogp. Right now the system is expensive & needs rebuilding often, but ducati has registered patents for a street version. The best part is its all mechanical, no expensive Vin locked electrohydraulic controllers to fail.
I like manual transmissions for the simplicity & the driving experience. Even the good torque convertor autos feel a little disconnected to me, dct's are better but there have been some bad ones as well. Part of the problem is manufacturers making non autos act like autos, cvt with fake shift points, dct that crawls forward when off the brakes.
Recon1342 said:In reply to AGGELIAFOROS :
Nah. Clutch operation is a fine art. If you've got to stretch on one side, adjust the seat. Multitasking? Try riding a motorcycle, where every limb is doing something different, sometimes all at once.
Right foot pushing down on the brake, left fingers actuating the clutch while the left foot flicks down through the gears while the right hand is applying brake and trying to rev match for the next gear. Yeah driving a car with 3 pedals is Childs play.
bobzilla said:In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I remember getting passed by an old box s-10 blazer on 4 bald tires passing me on US52. I was driving my old Elantra on H&R's and some decent 205/55/16 tires and big brake upgrade. I couldn't keep up with him if I wanted to.
It's amazing how fast you can be if you lack any regard for your personal well-being.
In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
Lack of a sense or mortality or self preservation. Those are why I can't drive a race car as fast olas others.
The automatic transmission was the first step toward distracted driving!
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:
It's amazing how fast you can be if you lack any regard for your personal well-being.
This describes how I rode my Yamaha RD350.
torque converter autos have made some huge improvements recently. I have no qualms with automatics. I prefer them in my trucks and drag cars. Id probably never want one in a toy that wasnt a drag car.
I think pretty much every fun car could be improved with a manual transmission. I also like the simplicity and longevity of a nice manual.
I hate CVTs and all the automated manuals. Most of the ones ive driven suck unless driven in anger and there is always the concern of emerging technology and what will become the industry standard and everything else will be abandoned and not supported. Im also too poor to chase every last tenth every year, Ill just have my fun cars I enjoy driving, and a big part of that is shifting my own gears. The other parts are large displacement, rwd, a bunch of noise and burning fossil fuels, Im not new to things I enjoy being threatened.
My daily is an automatic, but my manual Z4 keeps me entertained on the weekends. I'm approaching 60 and doing all I can to keep my physical & mental facilities in tact. Going out for a spirited drive in the Zed does just that, plus its a hoot!
In a world that is increasingly comfortable and sedentary (don't get me started on AI) the MT will likely survive not as a means for transport, but as a sport/hobby/activity for us enthusiasts.
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